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re: Bill Gates: Taxing the rich is fine, but some politicians miss the point

Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:36 pm to
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
37623 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:36 pm to
Guys like Gates have so much money, they don't really care about the higher top marginal rate on regular income and his case as well as Bezos' and some others, even the Cap Gains rate

These tax proposals hit millionaires harder than billionaires.....plus guys like Gates have a lot of their money placed in trusts
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77270 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

Guys like Gates have so much money, they don't really care about the higher top marginal rate on regular income and his case as well as Bezos' and some others, even the Cap Gains rate

These tax proposals hit millionaires harder than billionaires.....plus guys like Gates have a lot of their money placed in trusts
Exactly.

The wealthy pushes proposals that will never impact them.

Same with Hollywood progressives and immigration.

They build walls around their communities so that they don’t have to live with the policies they push.
Posted by Norbert
Member since Oct 2018
3702 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

it’s not fair to have as much money as I’ve got


Then, they fail to understand that they got rich at NOBODY'S expense.

People all around the world made the conscious decision that they valued Bill's products MORE than they valued the money in their pockets, and Bill decided the opposite. It is an entirely voluntary and mutually beneficial transaction, UNLIKE the one that Bill is nobly proposing.
Posted by Vecchio Cane
Ivory Tower
Member since Jul 2016
18913 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:40 pm to
Even better idea, Bill: Where do I show up to get my free Microsoft product?
Posted by wareaglepete
Union of Soviet Auburn Republics
Member since Dec 2012
18566 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

Elizabeth Warren's proposed tax policy that focuses on taxing net worth on households worth more than $50 million


That is not right. Let's say I have an annual income of about $900M to $1MM but the value of my stock in my company goes up to $60MM. So depending on liabilities, I may have a net worth well over $50MM. How are you going to base my tax on stock value that I have not exercised? What if I have to pay on that value and then the company tanks in a year and I am left with nothing? I got taxed for something I never had. Can anyone explain how that makes sense?
Posted by ProjectP2294
West St. Louis County
Member since May 2007
78763 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

Instead, he said lawmakers should focus on things like the estate tax, taxes on capital and Social Security.


Hurry up and die Bill Gates. But don't forget to go frick yourself before you do.
Posted by Mr. Wayne
Member since Feb 2008
10086 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

Instead, he said lawmakers should focus on things like the estate tax, taxes on capital and Social Security.


So he is against actually paying more in taxes. Estate taxes don't touch him until he's dead and he will have the best accountants money can buy working around paying more in capital gains. Typical rich liberal hypocrisy towards taxes when they know it's the middle class that will take the hit.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139071 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 4:01 pm to
quote:

Instead, he said lawmakers should focus on things like the estate tax
Coming from someone who channels his US earned fortune out of the country for free, and will channel most of his entire net worth overseas the same way, perhaps this is worth everybody's attention.
Posted by Scoop
RIP Scoop
Member since Sep 2005
44583 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

Someone who has already paid tax on everything they ever had and made, they die and now their beneficiary has to carve up and sell off assets because they have to pay a tax on the estate.


I’ve heard it argued that the estate tax is a means by which to slow down accumulated wealth within one family to the point that they become so massively wealthy over generations that they become an entity that can unduly influence public policy and such. Think Rockefellers, Carnegies, Vanderbilts, etc.

That is bullshite because up until this year, the estate tax kicked in at $5.5 million. No one dying and leaving behind a $5 million dollar estate is a threat to democracy.



Posted by klrstix
Shreveport, LA
Member since Oct 2006
3577 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 4:40 pm to
quote:

...taxing net worth...


Oh dear God... what a horrible concept!

Net worth can not only be argued up or down, but can be "fluid"... So this year my home market value may be $200k.. but next year in a really good market it may be worth $275k...

the who determines the value of something ( do you really want the IRS to determine what something you own is worth..?? ) is a nightmare to consider...

Really Bad Idea!
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
102792 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 5:28 pm to
quote:

Sen. Elizabeth Warren's proposed tax policy that focuses on taxing net worth on households worth more than $50 million.


Wait so if you had a net worth of 50 million you’d have to pay a high percentage of that every year? You’d make every wealthy person go completely broke
Posted by Tampa Tiger
Fl.
Member since Nov 2006
769 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 5:53 pm to
The government needs to stop wasteful spending.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
23151 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 6:58 pm to
quote:

I’ve heard it argued that the estate tax is a means by which to slow down accumulated wealth within one family to the point that they become so massively wealthy over generations that they become an entity that can unduly influence public policy and such. Think Rockefellers, Carnegies, Vanderbilts, etc.


It is an argument made from Marxists.

The 3 families you just listed all built Universities, Hospitals, Libraries, and charities with their wealth.

Leftist teach that the great industrial capitalists were all robber barons who stole form the masses to accumulate wealth.
It is just another one of their great lies.
The great industrial capitalists lifted millions out of poverty and enriched the lives of millions on their own dime.
This post was edited on 2/13/19 at 7:00 pm
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
95674 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 7:31 pm to
quote:

Going through the shittiest times of your life as your splitting your recently dead parents things and then the govt comes along and says “oh you can’t have those things”



And of course, this mostly falls on the middle class (however "upper"), because the truly wealthy can afford great trust lawyers and all those arrangements to shield their estates from such trifles.
Posted by TeLeFaWx
Dallas, TX
Member since Aug 2011
29311 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 7:39 pm to
quote:

Is any taxation policy in the US designed with the Laffer Curve in mind? Honestly asking.


The Laffer Curve is definitely a thing, and in higher AOC 70% levels it would be pretty measurable. However beyond that, it’s not that useful because it doesn’t describe the situation accurately. Taxation policy shouldn’t be designed with the Laffer Curve in mind it should be designed with Hauser’s law.

What is Hauser’s law might you ask? Well Hauser’s law states that tax revenue, since WWII is almost always 19.5% of GDP. In fact, from the 1950s until the dotcom boom, tax receipts were never more than 20% of GDP and never less than 16%. It wasn’t until the late 90s and the dotcom boom did it pop over 20% and it wasn’t til the 08 financial crisis until they got below 15%. Think of the wild change in interest rates from the 80s, think of the Internet revolution. Think of the powerhouse that it is the US economy. Doesn’t matter what you do(within reason) you’re going to be at 19.5% of GDP.

Hauser’s law isn’t just a cute little trend, it’s almost an iron clad representation of the tipping point of taxation. Given all the changes in tax scheme and the revenues are almost identical. You start to tax too much above that, you’ll scare off growth, but the marginal propensity to consume is not constant so it’s okay that lower income and non-investors in the economy pay less than that. It’s only when you get too many people above that 19.5% area or too many below, are you really going to have problems.

I really wish people would stop mentioning the Laffer Curve all together because it only really is interesting the extreme highs and the extreme lows. For the large chunk of the taxation range(even when libs claim in the 50s we had top rates at 80%, effective rates were never more than 35%. Both sides just start arguing completely irrelevant tangents.

Hauser’s Law should be the frame work where we tax people. The rich should pay a little more, and the poor should pay a little less, and pro-growth schemes that aren’t too far below 19.5% will largely be successful. Why do think the US corporate tax being at 35% was so out of whack with the rest of the OECD hovering at 20? And why do you think it was so successful? Hauser’s law, bitches!!!
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
23151 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 7:41 pm to
Bill is 100% free to donate 90% of his wealth to the Treasury.

IOW talk is cheap Bill
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
138933 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 7:42 pm to
We should take 99.5% of the total assets of these people who promote this bullshite
This post was edited on 2/13/19 at 7:46 pm
Posted by memphis tiger
Memphis, TN
Member since Feb 2006
20720 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 8:07 pm to
So how does taxing social security work. Isn’t that money that was already taken via tax?
Posted by oklahogjr
Gold Membership
Member since Jan 2010
40237 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

Bill is 100% free to donate 90% of his wealth to the Treasury.


I believe he's just donating it to scholarships and other charities in general across the world to fight diseases and all sorts of things.

Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
63500 posts
Posted on 2/13/19 at 9:10 pm to
quote:

"They have income that just is the value of their stock, which if they don't sell it, it doesn't show up as income at all,
Please tell me this isn’t a real quote. If so.... Gates is financially illiterate.
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