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re: Are aircraft carrier groups [ours] obsolete in the age of hypersonic missile systems?

Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:36 pm to
Posted by Narax
Member since Jan 2023
6082 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:36 pm to
Everything is obsolete in a major war.

Look at WW2, how many 1939 weapons made it to 1945 as peak cutting edge weapons.

The M-2?

But until WW3 breaks out Carriers are OP.
Posted by jawnybnsc
Greer, SC
Member since Dec 2016
5912 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:36 pm to
I think a rail gun system is not that far off.
Posted by BarberitosDawg
Lee County Florida across causeway
Member since Oct 2013
13193 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:40 pm to
I hope you are right. It just seems missel systems are progressing at light speed and we have a bunch of Bismarck s floating around with 5k sailors on them.
Posted by Tandemjay
Member since Jun 2022
4639 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:40 pm to
quote:

Something tells me that WW3 will be 5 minute Blitz Chess rather than a classical length game.


WW3 won't happen and WW2.5 will last a couple weeks after an economic depression caused by Russia withholding oil and gas from the market.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112664 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:43 pm to
quote:

My concern is are we still building ships if the line. Aircraft ended that era and has hypersonic deliveries ended this one or are we because of contracts turning a blind eye to evolves?


I suspect existing contracts are an issue. If you suddenly discontinue the class, it's an admission that they are vulnerable beyond acceptable risk, and you may as well pull all the carrier groups out of action.
Posted by Indefatigable
Member since Jan 2019
35771 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

When they turn due to "hyper speed" they tear apart.

How much are they actually turning? At those speeds a Nimitz or Ford is effectively stationary at any applicable range if we’re talking ship to ship combat.

quote:

A sub or ten launching near fleet weapons will be more than enough

This remains our trump (pun NOT intended) card. No one on earth can frick with the US sub fleet.
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 7:48 pm
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
4627 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

It can hit a satellite in orbit. You’re asking if it can hit a missile not as high moving not as fast?


May not have any relevance for this discussion, but as a former bird hunter I always found that the close ones were hardest to hit.
Posted by Rip Torn
Member since Mar 2020
5872 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:47 pm to
For starters China nor Russia possess 350 maneuverable, hypersonic missiles that could track moving targets and carriers are surrounded by defensive ships
Posted by BarberitosDawg
Lee County Florida across causeway
Member since Oct 2013
13193 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:48 pm to
You are making the point I think I heard Ward Carroll make with a Flagg office in a podcast.

Don’t quote me and assuredly could have heard wrong.

I think your point is what I heard in the aftermath.

Things change in life sometimes small and sometimes grandiose. I hope our present department is aware.
Posted by momentoftruth87
Your mom
Member since Oct 2013
86110 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:49 pm to
Or if they’re shooting 350 missiles at one carrier it would be getting nuclear very quickly so it would never happen.
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 7:50 pm
Posted by aTmTexas Dillo
East Texas Lake
Member since Sep 2018
22715 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:50 pm to
That's what the big boys get paid the big bucks for. And now the right administration is in place.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
20564 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:54 pm to
quote:

As I understand in an all out conflict our carrier groups are supposed to last 5 days on all out combat.

It’s likely they’re as obsolete as battleships in WW2, but we won’t know unless there’s an actual fleet to shore engagement between the US and China.
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 7:56 pm
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69331 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:56 pm to
The first couple hours of WWIII will see the world’s cities, armies, and navies all but extinguished. However, after all of that has been wiled off the chess board, those weapons, infrastructure, and people won’t be replacable. The rest of the war will be fought brutally with small arms and drones in shitty trenches for scraps of food and potable water.
Posted by OU Guy
Member since Feb 2022
24729 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:58 pm to
Your whole framing is wrong.

Any war is a multi level conflict and Carriers are just one of many aspects.

What you are failing to realize is we spend 99.9% of our time not at world war. That means a Carrier is useful to show power to a majority of the world and its not required we have any land permissions to do so. We can project that power daily and anywhere in the world. Its very useful in that endeavor.



Posted by tigger1
Member since Mar 2005
3746 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 7:59 pm to
The Soviet Union tactic to attack the US carrier groups where to attack with enough Bear Bombers to attack with 100 missiles at one time.


This at a time the guidance system where not the best in the world.

The Hypersonic missile question has been around since the late 1980's.

Just feel free to say there are systems in place to deal with the issue.

The Nuke problem is still in play and the US is parking to many of our carriers in the same place.

Check out the drome counter measures, it will give an idea what we have or fixing to have to counter the hypersonic missiles.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
154684 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:01 pm to
Stars wars type shite from space is closer than you think.

Imagine satellites armed with defensive weapons to knock down hypersonics on the edge of space. That is very close.

That’s just defense which we are probably leading too.

I’m sure we are already able to send offensive inertia weapons from so high they are unstoppable.
This post was edited on 3/15/25 at 8:01 pm
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
2650 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:03 pm to
Hypersonic missiles can be maneuverable as they fly in the atmosphere but I don't know how "maneuverable" they really are.

In other words in the theoretical 15-30 minute flight time to a carrier group, can they change their aim point as the carrier group will have moved up to 15nm in that time.

Also - what is their warhead? What is it's blast radius?

How good are their sensors in dealing with the skin surface temperatures at hypersonic speeds?

Can they receive targeting information in flight?

I suspect a battle group could defend against small numbers but large numbers of any incoming missiles, esp if multiple types, could overwhelm the defensive systems. We could certainly run short of anti-air missiles etc and I believe at-sea replenishment of many munitions is a lost art.

Posted by Saint Alfonzo
Member since Jan 2019
28370 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:05 pm to
You can't control sea lanes with missiles.
Posted by BarberitosDawg
Lee County Florida across causeway
Member since Oct 2013
13193 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:12 pm to
Let me just roll this out there: if and this is speculative jargon … The current Carrier Task Force Life span has been diminished from 5 days of inflicting hell upon our great nation’s enemies to 5 minutes now as some have speculated from the advent of hypersonic weapons is the loss worth the gain and new strategy be adopted.

Nobody wants to be a buggy whip?
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 3/15/25 at 8:22 pm to
Not everyone has hypersonic missiles, but we have shite that you would never believe. We have an orbital laser weapons system that can shot the beer out of your hand while you are riding in a boat at 50 mph, or at least did 10-15 years ago.

Drones and robots are the future of warfare
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