re: Amazon Prime new cartoon retells the creation story

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Azkiger

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Liberator's knee jerking reaction to his god being a child killer was to call me a liar...

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Let's add "certifiably insane" and "blasphemer" to your current resume. You've earned it.

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It's cultish behavior and reeks of indoctrination.

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Guilty as charged!

I'm a chartered member of Jesus Christ's "cult" of Saved Souls. (I'm reminded that it's anti-Christian ilk of anti-God lunatics & hostiles like you running DC, the Universities and Social Media networks. You're in special company.)

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Growing up in a church and coloring smiling animals aboard Noah's boat every Sunday will do that to you.

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Atta boy!!

It's those bitter Bible-indoctrinated church ladies and Baptists with their Genesis and Judgement Day "myths", Bible & Guns, eh?

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Which is why some of us get free passes?

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Let’s say I walk into a room with 100 people in it. I decide to give to give 50 of them $100. Is that fair to the other 50? Did the 50 that I gave the $100 to do anything to deserve it? The point is that none of us deserve God’s grace and mercy- we are all sinners. He graciously chooses to save some of us. Why? I don’t know. I personally hope that He will save all of us. But, as the Creator- that decision belongs to Him alone.

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Let’s say I walk into a room with 100 people in it. I decide to give to give 50 of them $100. Is that fair to the other 50? Did the 50 that I gave the $100 to do anything to deserve it?

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Let's add to this you need $100 dollars to live, and you also kidnapped everyone and forced them into this scenario.

That's hardly just.

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Do you blame your parents for your existence?

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You keep trying to soften the sharp edges of your religion but it's not working.

If my parents conceived me with the intent of injected me with a slow acting deadly disease at birth, fled the country, left me note saying that the house was bugged with mics and cameras and that the only way I'd get the antidote was to praise and worship them long enough, yeah, I'd probably blame them for my existence.

This isn't someone giving away personal property to strangers, or the real bonding of parent and child. You have to add so much baggage and retardation to your examples to get them to work, and you're not. Because deep down you know how ridiculous it sounds.

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Let’s add to this that I have enough money to give everyone the $100, and that I chose whom to give it to based on my knowledge of what they would do with it.

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So the only children that go to Heaven are the children who would have grown up to accept Christ? All the other children go to Hell?

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Like a child arguing with his parents about why he can’t eat chocolate cake for breakfast.

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Let's be clear, the "chocolate cake" in this scenario is me not wanting children to be drown.

Again, you keep trying to soften this to normal everyday behaviors, and what your god has done is anything but.

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You keep trying to soften the sharp edges of your religion but it's not working.

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No, I’m not. I’m trying to provide context. I don’t think it’s necessary to soften Christianity. To the contrary, I believe that’s what’s wrong with the version of it that we see today.

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If my parents conceived me with the intent of injected me with a slow acting deadly disease at birth, fled the country, left me note saying that the house was bugged with mics and cameras and that the only way I'd get the antidote was to praise and worship them long enough, yeah, I'd probably blame them for my existence.

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A couple of things here. First, I think you missed the point of the logical impossibility of seeking your permission to be created- before you were created. No problem. Moving on. Second, you can’t seem to separate the actions of a just and holy God from those of fallen and fallible people. You are judging the actions of the former by the actions of the latter- while failing to recognize that your knowledge is limited to your experience.

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This isn't someone giving away personal property to strangers, or the real bonding of parent and child. You have to add so much baggage and retardation to your examples to get them to work, and you're not. Because deep down you know how ridiculous it sounds.

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Typical response from an atheist - mockery and misrepresentation. Your bias is showing.

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So the only children that go to Heaven are the children who would have grown up to accept Christ? All the other children go to Hell?

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Well, that’s what the Bible says. I sincerely hope that He saves all of us, but I’m not going to bet my soul on it.

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Let's be clear, the "chocolate cake" in this scenario is me not wanting children to be drown.

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No. The chocolate cake is sin. You want to be able to sin freely, and still avoid hell.

Yall, I had a brief back and forth in this thread yesterday evening before going to dinner with my wife. I had a busy day today and haven’t been able to check TD much. I’m winding down for bed over 24 hrs after my last post in this thread and the atheist posters are STILL posting….thats just wild.

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Not that you’re interested, but here’s an explanation that, as a Christian, I find quite satisfying. I actually think you might enjoy it,

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Hey PS, I read your post and had to scroll back up and check the poster because I couldn’t believe Liberator would’ve posted something coherent.
Hey for you I will read the explanation in your link.

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I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets: Apparently, one of the fallen angels volunteered for this task. Since Ahab wanted to be deceived, God would give him what He wanted, using a willing fallen angel who worked through willing unfaithful prophets.

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Let me break that down:

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I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets

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Yahweh says that he, Yahweh, will be. Yahweh is the subject. Be is the verb. Spirit is the direct object. Spirit is the English word used but as the word for spirit is also used for wind and for breath, I would argue that a better English word choice would be breath. What kind of breath, or spirit? Lying - one that tells falsehoods. Yahweh will be the actual breath conveying lies which will come out of the prophets of Ba’al. Whether the lies are good or bad, righteous or evil is not the issue. The issue is that Yahweh was the wind carrying the lies out of the mouths of the prophets of Ba’al.

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Apparently, one of the fallen angels volunteered for this task

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Apparently, this is totally made up bullshite. sorry, but this is nowhere in the text.

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Since Ahab wanted to be deceived,

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Where does it say that? I can’t find it in the scripture.

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God would give him what He wanted, using a willing fallen angel who worked through willing unfaithful prophets.

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Complete malarkey. He’s trying to say it wasn’t Yahweh who lied but rather a fallen angel. It’s unscriptural and he’s forgetting that Yahweh said “I will be”. Not “I will use a fallen angel blah blah blah.”

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So, God didn’t lie. He used the free will decision of an evil fallen creature to accomplish His divine plan. A recurring theme throughout the Bible

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You are adopting the idea of someone spouting unscriptural ideas. Why not read and understand the scripture for what it literally says than performing mental gymnastics and fabricating notions that aren’t in the text?

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The Hebrew word (patah) can have the connotations of "seduce," "entice," or "persuade" (See BDB; HAL; CHALOT; DBL Hebrew).

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Most translations use “deceive”, but just because they mostly all use that word doesn’t make it right. Let’s look at the context, shall we?

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Then I said, “Ah, Lord GOD, surely you have utterly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, ‘It shall be well with you,’ whereas the sword has reached their very life.”

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Yahweh says it will be well, but the opposite has happened. Looks like a lie when something is stated as fact and the opposite is or comes true.

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O LORD, you have deceived me, and I was deceived; you are stronger than I, and you have prevailed. I have become a laughingstock all the day;

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90% of translations use “deceived” here too. Some say “misled” or “fooled” and a couple say “induced” (wtf) or “persuaded”. In context Jeremiah becomes a laughingstock. I think the evidence is strong here that Yahweh told Jeremiah a factual falsehood (a lie). Yahweh told Jeremiah there would be peace and happiness, and then immediately after that the Babylonians rolled in and gave the Jews the most epic beatdown ever and destroyed the center of the religion and their lives. He lied.

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Undoubtedly, you will see what you want to see, and I will see what I want to see.

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I don’t want to see anything. I ain’t got no dog in this hunt. My interest is learning, and whatever those facts end up being then I will acknowledge them. You think I don’t want to spend forever in eternal bliss with my loved ones? There just isn’t any reality to that unfortunately.

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I can’t help but mention, that you have neglected to reply to my last post from our Moses discussion. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume that you just didn’t see it.

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Good assumption. I usually don’t check past the first page of responses. I’ll try to remember to go find it and respond.

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How can this be viewed as feminist?

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Same way abortion can.

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Moving on. Second, you can’t seem to separate the actions of a just and holy God from those of fallen and fallible people.

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He "can't seem to" because he refuses to. It's not a difficult task intellectually.

But for those who will not submit their will to God, it is an impossible task emotionally/spiritually.

I think there is a great deal of allegory in the Bible and that includes things that many people read as literal. And I think that because I think that whatever the spiritual realm turns out to be like, it won't be much at all what it is like here, so I don't think we have a conceptual framework to understand it and allegory is the best we can do here.

That said, there is really only one theme throughout the entire Bible told in different ways over and over and over again. From the Garden in Genesis to the Judgement Day in Revelation—it's told in allegory, in poetry, in Proverbs, in historical events, in prophecy, etc., etc. And that theme is that some people are willing to submit to Divine authority and subjugate their will to God's, and other people are not. Some people will bow to the authority of the King of the Universe and others will rebel against Him.

There are several facets to that theme, of course, such as God's provision for humankind to be reconciled to Him (since everyone rebels to some degree), but the one that is relevant to this particular discussion is the fact of the human condition that many people could be confronted with irrefutable proof of the Christian God's existence and would still choose to reject Him and His authority.

And in fact, I believe that that is exactly what will happen in some way when we die. I think C.S. Lewis got it right with the Great Divorce...I don't mean the details—those were just wild guesses—but the idea that people in Hell can leave it any time they choose, but they refuse. They elect to stay in Hell.

I believe the poster to whom you are replying as well as the vast majority of other atheists "do not believe" not because their intellect honestly and objectively comes to that conclusion, but because to admit God exists means that one has only two choices. At that point one must deliberately accept His authority or deliberately reject it in favor of his or her own will. And I think most atheists—despite claiming to believe in a worldview that basically renders morality meaningless, which should free them to be as contemptible as they wish to be without suffering any meaningful judgement—want to believe themselves to be moral beings, which is impossible if you openly rebel against the Creator and Moral Authority of all that exists. (It's also a tacit admission that atheism is self-defeating).

Instead, they tell themselves they don't believe, and thereby calibrate their authority as equal to any other authority. (In the context of the moral issue, this is what is known as having your cake and eating it too. They want to act as though morality has meaning without a transcendent moral authority even though logically that is impossible under materialist atheism—Ted Bundy's morality is necessarily equal to Mother Theresa's, and no one should be able to tell either one how to act—but when it comes to submitting to authority, their will is to be followed absolutely.)

But I digress...where was I? I think here: the denial of Divine existence is central to the narrative that God's morality is evil. Even a small child can reason that an actual First Cause and Transcendent Moral Authority cannot be evil because good is defined as whatever is in accordance with that Being's nature and will and evil is defined as whatever is not. It's elementary. So they have to erase God to make that argument.

When they say those things they aren't really saying that God is evil. Only a fool would say that. They are saying that God doesn't exist and the people who wrote the Bible or the ancient Israelites who committed the acts that the Bible records are evil. They presuppose that God doesn't exist (just like most atheist arguments, they either presuppose that God doesn't exist or they presuppose a self-contradictory premise that they then ignore).

In any case, I think that you are taking to someone who, one day, could leave any time he chooses, but will choose to stay in Hell. Because the price of letting go of his own will is going to be more than he's willing to pay.

You can decide whether it makes sense to continue to converse with him on that basis (assuming you accept that as a reasonable assessment of the poster in question).

(no message)