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re: Amazon Prime new cartoon retells the creation story
Posted on 2/11/24 at 7:00 am to Prodigal Son
Posted on 2/11/24 at 7:00 am to Prodigal Son
quote:
“Claims without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” Did I do it right?
You are ignoring the evidence I already provided. You are choosing to use the mental gymnastics of apologetics to trick yourself into believing all the evidence doesn’t matter. You choose to belief, despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
quote:
And, any evidence that you would rest your case on, at best, would be subject to interpretation and endless debate.
Yep.
. Especially so for the people who have some understanding of scientific principles, and who ignore the contradictions and fallacies within the Bible because they simply want to believe it. quote:
the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. That’s a metaphor, Jack.
You reinterpret these stories as metaphor because you know there is no firmament, nor a vast ocean of water above the nonexistent firmament. There are probably 100 references to the splitting of the waters, the hard dome of the firmament, the sky ocean, and the fountains of the great deep. You choose to interpret this as metaphor but the ancient Jews absolutely believed it was literal.
Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai wrote:
quote:
Since the sky is made of water and the stars of fire and they dwell one with the other without damaging one another, therefore He makes peace in His heights.
quote:
fill in the blank with meaningless details. First of all, for someone who places such high regard for scholarly consensus- I would think that the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ would be a given
The irreconcilable contradictions are meaningless details to you? Not to me. It shows that they are not historically accurate. The resurrection of Jesus is a consensus among biblical scholars??? C’mon man even you know that is malarkey. Scholars like the late Mike Heiser believed, but the extreme majority of everything I’ve read from biblical scholars has been from (former Christian) atheist scholars who became atheist after learning the Bible and learning history.
quote:
If anything, these “contradictions” only add legitimacy to the claim of being an authentic eyewitness report
The only eyewitness to Jesus in the first person was Paul who claimed to have seen Jesus after he had been resurrected in the third layer of heaven. There are no first person eyewitness claims of a Jesus on earth. Illiterate Aramaic speaking fisherman aren’t able to write in perfect Greek. In reality (let’s get our fantasy world) many of the contradictions are caused by multiple authors with different theologies who wanted “the gospel” to say something different than what it already said. And scholars know positively that Mark used Paul as a source. And Matthew used Mark as a source. Luke used Mark and Matthew as sources. John used them all as sources but was the least laziest in that he sort of rewrote the gospel in his own words.
quote:
The Gospels, plus the epistles, makes for a robust, cumulative case.
The gospel of a human on earth flesh and blood Jesus was fabricated potentially as an allegorical play/performance based on Paul’s heavenly Jesus. Some took it out of context and began using it as a tool to convert gentiles who wouldn’t have been familiar with Essene Messianic Jewish theology.
quote:
I would be more than surprised to find out that there was a single argument that you have not heard.
I haven’t found one that didn’t either presuppose the “Truth” of the Bible with circular logic or that didn’t use “god of the gaps” in one form or another.
1
Posted on 2/11/24 at 1:17 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Squirrelmeister
Lucky for you this God you reject, gave you free will…a gift even the angels don’t have. You were given this opportunity not to be lorded over by God but that you would CHOOSE to make him your Lord! Even more fortunate for you, God Almighty, whom you have spent years and perhaps your whole life reviling, mocking, twisting his Holy Word, and rejecting STILL loves you enough that whenever, even as you draw your last breath, should you seek the salvation of Jesus, his Holy Spirit will quicken you into his kingdom and all of Heaven would rejoice! His love for you is stronger than your heart is hardened toward him!
As my old middle school principal used to drill into us…a word to the wise is sufficient!
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:16 pm to Crimson1st
quote:
free will…a gift even the angels don’t have.
Why don't the angels have free will?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:17 pm to Crimson1st
quote:
Lucky for you this God you reject, gave you free will…a gift even the angels don’t have.
So how did they rebel?
Posted on 2/11/24 at 2:59 pm to Squirrelmeister
quote:
Yes, yes, and Yes. Especially in Europe there were “Conversos” - Jewish converts to Catholicism. They were given choices to leave Europe, convert to Catholicism, or be burned at the stake.
Wow. Words cannot express just how terrible that is. Nor can it express how counterproductive and counterintuitive that is to the actual teaching of Christ. Shameful does not begin to describe it. You’ll get no defense from me.
[
quote:
You’re right - just because it was spread and propagated by evil terrible actions of Christians doesn’t mean Christianity is false. Rather it’s the historical and scientific falsehoods and irreconcilable contradictions that demonstrate the religion’s falseness.
Come on man- you know that’s not what I said. That’s your perspective , not mine. I respectfully grant your position, as the horrific acts committed in the name of Jesus Christ are indefensible. What I contend, is that true belief in, and true love for Christ cannot be attained through subjugation. Rather, that these acts, if they were accepted practices of Christianity, and were reflective of the teachings of Christ, would cause more rejection than acceptance. And, therefore, if this was an accurate representation of Christianity- then Christianity most certainly would have failed in the absence of force. quote:
You mentioned the “endurance and rapid growth” of christianity. I merely pointed out that if that used to be the case, then it is no longer the case, with a poll as evidence.
I offer a firsthand, eyewitness account- to the contrary of your poll. I have visited several churches in the past year- and they are bursting at the seams with new congregants. These are churches that faithfully preach the Word of God- from the Bible, to the congregation. The churches that are suffering notable losses are the ones that have strayed from, or attempted to soften/water down the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
quote:
Significant loss? You can argue it isn’t significant but I’m happy you can see that it is not enduring and rapidly growing at least. A massive downward trend in the double digits of percentage to me is significant.
Sure- those numbers are significant. But, where are they going? According to the study in question, less than 5% of the population is or has become atheist. The vast majority of people who are leaving the church, are not abandoning their faith in God.
quote:
The poll is anonymous. I think your assertion of fake Christians now showing their true colors on anonymous poll is a bit of mental gymnastics on your part to trick yourself into believing that Christianity’s ranks are decreasing
You are entitled to your opinion. I am merely offering a possible explanation, based on firsthand knowledge, in the absence of explanatory information from the study.
quote:
quote: There is no neutrality in belief. In order to lack belief in something, you must lack any knowledge of it whatsoever.
quote:
So to hold true to your own logic, I’d like to hear about your thoughts on Muhammad (pbuh). You don’t simply lack belief in the Quran, but you positively believe it’s all made up I guess?
You guessed right, my friend. But, you failed to understand the point of the original statement, and engage the concept: Just as I actively believe that there is no Santa, and Islam is a false religion- you actively believe that the Christian God does not exist, and that Christianity is a false religion. Actually… originally I believe you stated quite emphatically that there is/was no God at all. You have, since then, altered your approach- to admit to a certain extent of agnosticism in regards to the existence of a God, and focus more on your belief that the Christian God does not exist, and Christianity is/must be false. Kudos to you for recognizing the unintelligibility of the atheist position. I’m honored to be with you on your journey from atheism to agnosticism.
As far as my reasons for believing that Islam is false, I will let William Lane Craig spell it out for you. I hope you read the entire article, as his brief treatment of the Trinity is pretty good. There are many differences between Islam and Christianity. But first and foremost is that Islam denies the deity of Christ. That’s a deal breaker for me baw.
Posted on 2/11/24 at 7:46 pm to Esquire
quote:
Lucky for you this God you reject, gave you free will…a gift even the angels don’t have.
So how did they rebel?
Ok let me rephrase what I said…the angels CAN exercise free will ONCE if they choose to disobey God. There is no redemption for their poor choice. It's like skydiving without a parachute. You can do it…once…
In other words angels can choose to exercise free will but they do not have authorization to do it!
This post was edited on 2/11/24 at 8:24 pm
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