Prodigal Son

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Their religion is like Christianity from 500 years ago.

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Yes and no. Islam is a works based religion- the opposite of Christianity. The only problem with Christianity is that most of its adherents don’t actually follow Christ’s teachings. The biggest problem with Islam, is that they do follow the teachings of Muhammad.If Christians were as good at being Christians as Muslims are at being Muslims, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

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I do think as their standard of living improves over time and their science education improves (both things are kind of hand in hand) that they will become less and less religious and eventually “lose their faith”

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I strongly disagree. They are indoctrinated from birth, and that indoctrination is protected by their highly controlled societies. They don’t assimilate. Everywhere they go, they out-breed and subjugate the natives. They are the same today as they were 1400 years ago. They’re also the dumbest people on earth- largely due to inbreeding, which they have been doing for 1400 years, and still do. Because MUH-hammad did. If you’re counting on them changing, I suggest you do a brief study of their history.

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“lose their faith” as is happening in Europe and North America.

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Is that what you think is and has been happening? I see the total opposite. They’re destroying Europe and now America. Take a trip to Dearbornistan. Heck, just go to Texas. 48 mosques have been built in Texas in just the last two years. They are a cancer. An extremely dumb, but highly motivated cancer. They’re not interested in science, education, or improved (by our standards) standards of living.

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the earliest Christians believed the end of the world and the general resurrection would happen “very soon” and even in their own lifetimes.

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Paul’s letters came 20 years after the resurrection and ascension of Jesus. I’m pretty sure that by the time the NT was being written, the writers understood what Jesus was saying all along: BE ready. 2 Peter chapter 3 (among many others) makes this abundantly clear.

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Jesus tells his followers the same thing in the gospels. They were living in the “last days” and “last hours”. It’s been 2000 years!

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2 Peter 3:3-4
knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”

Sound familiar? :lol: This was likely written 30 years after the resurrection. Last days?

2 Peter 3:7-9
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

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Knowing what you know, why would you still believe in it

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I can’t see it any other way. I’ve tried. He always calls me home. I find that the arguments for God support what I know in my heart. Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, contingency arguments, teleological arguments, pragmatic arguments, the argument from beauty, the argument from desire- you get the point. These deep philosophical questions are best answered by the existence of God. From there, the historicity of the Bible, the fulfillment of prophecy, miracles, etc, all point to the Christian God being the best candidate. That, and materialism is ridiculous.

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brainwashing your own self into believing it just because it’s what you want to believe

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It’s funny that you don’t/can’t see the irony of that statement. We both have faith. I place mine in Jesus Christ, and you place yours in yourself.

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The only thing I want to believe is what is real, historical, verifiable, and factual

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That’s not entirely, necessarily true. You want to believe in abiogenesis, for example. Or at least some explanation currently unknown to man that absolves humanity of the need for divine creation- once and for all. You have faith that science will solve this problem. You also want to believe that the Christian God doesn’t exist. That’s not a factual, or verifiable claim- it’s a desire that informs your bias.

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I’m not alleging you didn’t know that but I thought for others’ reading you were missing some context.

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Hm. I thought I covered that. Oh well. Thanks for clearing that up. Did you see my earlier post (in this thread, page 11) about how Islam is taking over? I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

ETA: what I thought I’d covered was the imminent versus non-imminent aspect of the rapture. Not the resurrection, body aspect.

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People that mix politics and religion scare the shite out of me.

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The two are inseparable. If you’re going to be an atheist (roughly 6% of the population), then, as in politics, you should be more concerned with aligning with the lesser of evils.

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Politics is about governance through rational compromise.

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Surely you’re not that naive.

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But Christian Conservatives believe they are acting in the name of God.

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So do Muslims and Jews. See point 1.

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How can you begin to compromise with others if you have THAT kind of world view???

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Of the three (Christians, Muslims, and Jews) who are you more afraid of- and why?

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If they truly believe this is the end times and the rapture is really imminent, just fukin shut up and quit worrying about politics and quit voting.

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Funny thing- this was basically the point of Paul’s letters to the Thessalonians. Not necessarily politics, but that they were basically giving up on life because they thought they had either missed the rapture, or that the rapture was imminent; and the n either case were not performing daily duties. Paul was warning us against this. We are to live as though Christ may return any moment, and simultaneously as though it may be a thousand years.

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Trust in the magical sky daddy.

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So tiresome.
:yawn:

Start your own company. The only thing stopping you- is you.

I’m unloading all my BTC and putting it all in bacon

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So what in the frick are we doing here?

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Distraction via bread and circuses. It’s just another circus act.

I’m also super excited that it was super bright at 6am. So excited. What a great idea DST is. Yay.

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Our systems are flawed because the people who developed and perpetuate them are also flawed.

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Which systems are flawed? In what ways? Perhaps I should have been more specific in my earlier post. I blame:

Selfishness- across the board. This applies to all of us. Im not excluded. Neither are you. Whether it’s that we want more than we need/deserve, or we’re unwilling to share what we have- this hits home for all of us at some point. But that doesn’t excuse…

Laziness- 2 Thessalonians 3:6-12
6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.[d]

I don’t think that really needs an explanation, but since it’s you, I feel compelled. :lol:

We have an epidemic of able-bodied men and women of working age that refuse to work. Do you disagree? Im an electrician. I do a lot of work in low income areas (I also do a lot of work in high income areas— I do a lot of work). I see this firsthand, everyday. It used to infuriate me. Now, it saddens me. They are literally throwing their lives away. Are they being taken advantage of? Yes. Against their will? No.

Greed- 1 Timothy 6:10
English Standard Version
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

Akin to selfishness, but geared more towards the control side of the situation. While it infects the rich and the poor, it is much more pronounced in the rich; as it drives the rich to do things to their fellow man that the poor will never have the opportunity to. Like, for example, to create and sustain a welfare system and destroy the family unit in order to gain a lifelong loyal voter base and remain in power. I assume this is your particular area of focus when discussing these perceived systemic injustices and oppression.

You’re not wrong, but I think you’re missing the fact that this isn’t forced- it requires willing participation from both parties. Neither party is excused by the other’s behavior, and neither party is solely responsible for the other’s behavior. It takes two to tango. If at any time either partner excuses themselves- the dance is over.

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You started this post talking about how we all need to be more Christ-like!

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We do. All of us. It’s the only way to fix all of our problems. I’m not on my high horse. I suck pretty bad at it (execution) most of the time. But the point is, that if we all were- there would be a lot less selfishness, laziness, and greed. No man made (secular) system is going to be anywhere near as effective as living by the acronym WWJD. :cheers: