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re: Agreed upon by Trump .... USA to leave Northern Syria .... Turkey to Invade N. Syria.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:16 am to The Funnie Five
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:16 am to The Funnie Five
quote:
But our greatest ally has a problem with that...
I don’t think we have anyone “on our side” that qualifies as an ally.
0
Posted on 10/7/19 at 5:33 am to cokebottleag
quote:
I couldn't give a frick about the Kurds. We helped THEM, not the other way around.
True, amazing how the facts get twisted around.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 6:04 am to GeorgeTheGreek
Gonna have to disagree with the consensus here. This is a terrible decision that will lead to the resurgence of ISIS. Turkey has covertly supported ISIS for years and the instability this decision will lead to will let ISIS regroup. There are also thousands of ISIS fighters at the Al Hawl prison camp that Turkey will probably set free now. Worst of all, this will lead to large scale genocide of Kurdish civilians in the “safe” zone. The Kurds sacrificed more than 10,000 fighters in the fight against ISIS and now we betray them. Easily the worst foreign policy decision Trump has made.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 6:06 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Pretty fricked up to leave our Kurdish allies who helped us fight ISIS
We've been abandoning the Kurds for decades and you're right, it's fricked up
Posted on 10/7/19 at 6:35 am to The Funnie Five
quote:Has been a part of a coup attempt against our government. Screw 'em. With Allies like that, who needs enemies?
But our greatest ally has a problem with that...
Posted on 10/7/19 at 6:47 am to GeorgeTheGreek
Mideast: Bombs from the air; not boots on the ground...
Posted on 10/7/19 at 7:29 am to GeneralLee
quote:
Gonna have to disagree with the consensus here. This is a terrible decision that will lead to the resurgence of ISIS. Turkey has covertly supported ISIS for years and the instability this decision will lead to will let ISIS regroup. There are also thousands of ISIS fighters at the Al Hawl prison camp that Turkey will probably set free now. Worst of all, this will lead to large scale genocide of Kurdish civilians in the “safe” zone. The Kurds sacrificed more than 10,000 fighters in the fight against ISIS and now we betray them. Easily the worst foreign policy decision Trump has made.
Of course this will lead to the resurgence of ISIS. Turkey supported ISIS and even bought all the oil they shipped -- including close family members of Erdogan. This is a horrific betrayal.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 7:38 am to cokebottleag
quote:
I couldn't give a frick about the Kurds. We helped THEM, not the other way around.
That’s spot on.
They used us to expand their autonomous enclave in Syria.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 7:59 am to SirWinston
Sorry SirWinston but the "America First" crowd is wrong to be celebrating here. Erdogan is a jihadist thug who will love to slaughter thousands of Kurdish civilians to get his "safe zone". Look at what happened in Afrin province over the past two years. ISIS controlled that area before, Turkey was all too happy to have them on their border. Then, the moment it looked like the Kurds might drive ISIS from that province, Turkey swooped in and committed ethnic cleansing against Kurdish civilians in the area. Large amounts of jihadist friendly refugees now live in cities that used to be Kurdish and democracy supporting.
This decision is similar to Obama's to withdraw our forces from Iraq after the surge had brought stability. That vacuum led to the formation of ISIS. Who knows what this new vacuum will bring. NE Syria was one bright spot in a terrible region of the world (respect of religious minorities, etc.), and now Erdogan is going to slaughter that bright spot in favor of his dictatorship.
We have betrayed a steadfast ally, for what? Erdogan will not be our friend even after this unilateral concession we made. We should have done everything to try to get Erdogan out of power, his grip was starting to slip a bit in recent election, but this will be a PR coup for him and likely will cement his grip on power even further.
The tens of thousands of ISIS prisoners in the Al Hawl camp will now be set free by Turkey, free to spread jihadist mindsets elsewhere and launch new terrorist attacks. We should have never taken them prisoner, should've just carpet bombed the Baghouz area they were holed up in.
By far this is the worst decision Trump has made in foreign policy, not even close!
This decision is similar to Obama's to withdraw our forces from Iraq after the surge had brought stability. That vacuum led to the formation of ISIS. Who knows what this new vacuum will bring. NE Syria was one bright spot in a terrible region of the world (respect of religious minorities, etc.), and now Erdogan is going to slaughter that bright spot in favor of his dictatorship.
We have betrayed a steadfast ally, for what? Erdogan will not be our friend even after this unilateral concession we made. We should have done everything to try to get Erdogan out of power, his grip was starting to slip a bit in recent election, but this will be a PR coup for him and likely will cement his grip on power even further.
The tens of thousands of ISIS prisoners in the Al Hawl camp will now be set free by Turkey, free to spread jihadist mindsets elsewhere and launch new terrorist attacks. We should have never taken them prisoner, should've just carpet bombed the Baghouz area they were holed up in.
By far this is the worst decision Trump has made in foreign policy, not even close!
This post was edited on 10/7/19 at 8:08 am
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:01 am to GeorgeTheGreek
We no longer have the British Empire to control essential economic hot spots of the world.
It would be a mistake to leave the Middle East. We cannot allow the Mullahs of Iran, the Ba'athist, the Russians, and ISIS to control the world’s oil prices.
But that doesn’t mean Americans have to wear the boots on the ground. And it also doesn’t mean American tax dollars have to pay for it either. We can provide intelligence, and force multipliers with air, sea, and land special forces power.
We don’t need or want to conquer, convert, or colonize them. We just need enough influence and control to prevent safe space training bases for 9-11 terror attacks against us.
While the Turks are certified arseholes, I approve of this.
It would be a mistake to leave the Middle East. We cannot allow the Mullahs of Iran, the Ba'athist, the Russians, and ISIS to control the world’s oil prices.
But that doesn’t mean Americans have to wear the boots on the ground. And it also doesn’t mean American tax dollars have to pay for it either. We can provide intelligence, and force multipliers with air, sea, and land special forces power.
We don’t need or want to conquer, convert, or colonize them. We just need enough influence and control to prevent safe space training bases for 9-11 terror attacks against us.
While the Turks are certified arseholes, I approve of this.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:02 am to Gaspergou202
quote:
While the Turks are certified arseholes, I approve of this.
Are you still going to approve of this when atrocities are committing by the Turks against Kurdish civilians in Kobane, Qamishlo, etc. (large cities that are in the "safe zone")?
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:07 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
The Kurds agreed to the decision, which is why trump went through with it
quote:
The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces said it is committed to the agreement between Turkey and the U.S. to preserve stability in the region.
You need to link that because everything I see indicates the Kurds feel betrayed as they were persuaded by US promises to abandon defensive positions against Turkish aggression to assist against isis. Now they are fully exposed to Turkish invasion and have said they will abandon the fight against isis to defend against turkey and what’re the chances the 60k or so isis prisoners get lost in the chaos?
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:09 am to cwill
quote:
You need to link that because everything I see indicates the Kurds feel betrayed as they were persuaded by US promises to abandon defensive positions against Turkish aggression to assist against isis. Now they are fully exposed to Turkish invasion and have said they will abandon the fight against isis to defend against turkey and what’re the chances the 60k or so isis prisoners get lost in the chaos?
Agreed. There was a "stability agreement" that had been in place for a month or so. Basically SDF had to dismantle all fortifications in the safe zone and there were joint US/Turkish patrols. Now the SDF won't have the benefit of those fortifications when the Turks come invading. This is an extra vicious backstab of our former allies.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:12 am to GeorgeTheGreek
I wonder if we will continue to supply the Kurds with arms? Seems like something we should do. If they have the munitions to defend themselves against ISIS and the Turks then I see no issue here with our exit.
Furthermore if Erdogan has Ottoman Empire desires and follows through, this kind of action will effectively remove him from NATO protection.
Furthermore if Erdogan has Ottoman Empire desires and follows through, this kind of action will effectively remove him from NATO protection.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:18 am to GeneralLee
The Kurds will never be able to stand in their own. We would need to stay for decades. And the creation of a Kurdish state, which is what this would entail, would destabilize the region. The Kurds would use it as a safe zone, to support their insurgency in Turkey. It would also provoke issues with Syria, Iraq, and Iran.
It’s a sentimental idea, and a bad idea.
It’s a sentimental idea, and a bad idea.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:21 am to Lima Whiskey
So let's just leave them to be slaughtered by Turkey? Why not at least give them time to work out an agreement with the Assad regime to maintain some degree of self autonomy?
Do you honestly think Turkey is going to prosecute and convict the ISIS prisoners in the Al Hawl camp? They will just set them free to create havoc in Kurdish areas, doing them a favor from their perspective!
Do you honestly think Turkey is going to prosecute and convict the ISIS prisoners in the Al Hawl camp? They will just set them free to create havoc in Kurdish areas, doing them a favor from their perspective!
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:23 am to GeorgeTheGreek
quote:
Obama was an idiot when it came to geopolitical relations in the region.
Obama was an idiot when it came to foreign policy outside of US-Cuba relations
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:25 am to Lima Whiskey
Maybe Trump is trying to goad Turkey into invading the Kurds. If so doesn't have effectively remove Turkey from NATO?
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:32 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Agreed upon by Trump .... USA to leave Northern Syria .... Turkey to Invade N. Syria.
The Kurds agreed to the decision, which is why trump went through with it
No they didn't. They might have agreed to the prior stability agreement from a month or so ago which was just joint US Turkish patrols along the border.
Posted on 10/7/19 at 8:34 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The Kurds will never be able to stand in their own. We would need to stay for decades. And the creation of a Kurdish state, which is what this would entail, would destabilize the region. The Kurds would use it as a safe zone, to support their insurgency in Turkey. It would also provoke issues with Syria, Iraq, and Iran.
It’s a sentimental idea, and a bad idea.
This seems like the sort of thing that the UN was created for. Where are they here?
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