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re: A major impediment to upward mobility for blacks is racist landlords.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:56 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:56 am to ShortyRob
quote:
While I'm not discounting the article, anyone else notice that they only told us the percentage of blacks who were rejected but not the percentage of whites rejected?
It was worse than that, though. It was the percentage of blacks rejected OR "treated unfairly", however the frick that was objectively categorized.
It's such a transparently agenda based deal.
What percentage of blacks were ACTUALLY REJECTED by white uptown liberals?
0
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:57 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Even when controlling for equally positioned people, blacks in this nation have lower credit scores.
Demonstrably not true. FICO uses a pure mathematical formula that does not use race.
I'm not saying credit approvers with discretion don't (they should not and are prohibited by law from doing so legally, but it is what it is) - but one cannot blame race for a low credit score.
If your credit score is low it is either:
A. Your fault
B. Your responsibility (you lost your job, but your'e still responsible for the debts you incurred)
C. A mistake in reporting by your creditors.
There is no, "D. You're black" - because it isn't possible.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:57 am to cwill
quote:Well, I gathered that the point of the article was that some landlords checked the black scores but not the whites. And, of course, the landlord quite obviously doesn't know that the testers had equal scores without having checked. So, the fact they were equal is pretty much irrelevant to the point about not checking whites.
They have equal credit scores.
quote:
OK...but I thought we were just talking about whether or not the treatment was racist (or prejudicial is probably more accurate).
Can't people just be more comfortable renting to people more similar to them? I wont rent to non-married couples for example. I don't hate non-married couples. I used to BE part of a non-married couple. But, non-married couples of a MUCH higher rate of someone bailing leaving the other unable to pay rent. So, I wont rent to them.
I wouldn't call a black person who prefer to rent to other blacks a racist. He might be racist, but his rental preferences aren't proof of that.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:57 am to ShortyRob
quote:
But, for a person renting a home they own, I could give two shits if they want to only rent to hot blondes. It's called FREEDOM.
Why do people keep saying this if this precludes someone from being racist? Freedom isn't the issue in these cases, I'm perplexed why people keep bringing it up.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 9:59 am to ShortyRob
quote:
By the way. While I'm not discounting the article, anyone else notice that they only told us the percentage of blacks who were rejected but not the percentage of whites rejected? That sure is poor writing.
Well just read the actual study. Thats what I'm going to do when I have time. Articles summarizing research for laymen are notoriously shitty.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:00 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Um. I think you misunderstood what I said.
Demonstrably not true. FICO uses a pure mathematical formula that does not use race.
I merely observed that even when controlling for factors like income and job status, blacks have lower scores. That is 100% fact. Again, I don't know why that is. I'm not in the heads of the people. I'm just stating reality.
I didn't say that FICO is factoring in race. I assume the difference in scores is because even when income and job status are the same, blacks as a group must have different attitudes about paying their debts.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:00 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:It doesn't. It also doesn't prove they are.
Why do people keep saying this if this precludes someone from being racist?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:01 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Why do people keep saying this if this precludes someone from being racist? Freedom isn't the issue in these cases, I'm perplexed why people keep bringing it up.
I agree with the "Freedom of association" aspect should be decoupled from "Racist" aspect. Racism, by definition is a person exercising a particular freedom.
Where it comes into conflict, IMHO, should be in public accomodation, government employment, etc. The stretches made to reach the correct result (i.e., the lunch counter issues) did long-term damage to our freedoms, despite being for a good cause.
I believe a person should have the right to refuse anyone, if it is that person's business - with the caveat that if it is for impermissible reasons, that person would be ineligible for government contracts, etc.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:02 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
According to OP, credit rating and other important factors when renting were controlled for. Despite that (again, according to this study which I have not read so if its BS its BA) blacks were still "treated unfairly." The poster I responded to said he would do the same thing. To me that is textbook racism. You disagree?
In fairness, I didn't read the article nor do I plan to. I didn't realize those factors were controlled.
Racist? More prejudiced I guess, although I'd rather be prejudiced and cover my arse than get burned again. And those prejudices have been formed over years of experience.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:02 am to ShortyRob
quote:
It doesn't. It also doesn't prove they are.
Sure. But if someone, I don't care what race, chooses to rent to one race over the other for, seemingly, no other explanation besides skin tone, its definitely suspicious for racism or racial prejudice.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:05 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Meh.
Sure. But if someone, I don't care what race, chooses to rent to one race over the other for, seemingly, no other explanation besides skin tone, its definitely suspicious for racism or racial prejudice.
When I used to go to the chow hall back in the day, if you didn't know better, you'd have thought people assigned tables. "Blacks at this table, whites at that table, hispanics at the other table".
The chow hall wasn't full of racist people. People tend to hang around with folks that they are most comfortable with. I'm not stunned to discover that when renting a home one individually owns, they might tend to do the same thing.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:05 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
seemingly, no other explanation besides skin tone,
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:05 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:In Soviet Russia, apartment rent you
Everyone should have an apartment rent free like in soviet union.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:07 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I merely observed that even when controlling for factors like income and job status, blacks have lower scores.
Income and job status do not factor - in any way - in the FICO score. The FICO score is 100% a mathematical formula based on credit history, number of accounts, age of accounts, delinquency, etc.
Age, race, job, education, income, work history - NONE of that appears in the credit score.
quote:
That is 100% fact.
No it isn't. You appear to be speaking about 2 different, conflicting things at the same time.
If you want to say that taking 100 random whites and 100 random blacks and suggesting the whites will have a better average FICO score than the blacks, I might tend to agree with you. But, it is because of actual credit practices of this population, not some genetic factor, predisposition, etc., it just is what it is.
This post was edited on 11/7/14 at 10:07 am
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:08 am to FT
quote:
Everyone should have an apartment rent free like in soviet union.
We should integrate private housing like we did schools.
Every white family has to take in x number of minorities in uptown, and every black family has to take in y number of white hipsters in the 6th ward.
If you have too many kids, we move them to another house to make room for the transfers.
That's how you do it.
This post was edited on 11/7/14 at 10:10 am
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:13 am to Eighteen
quote:
Would need to see pictures of both people for this to be legit.
QWould also habe to compare attitudes.
Someone with an agenda could drive this study to produce whatever results they wanted by just how they present themselves.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:13 am to Ace Midnight
quote:I know this.
Income and job status do not factor - in any way - in the FICO score.
quote:I know all of this. Where are you getting the idea that I'm asserting otherwise?
The FICO score is 100% a mathematical formula based on credit history, number of accounts, age of accounts, delinquency, etc.
Age, race, job, education, income, work history - NONE of that appears in the credit score.
I'm merely observing that if I have two Project Managers with 10 years experience and the same income, statistics say that for whatever reason, the black one seems to have lower credit scores(one would assume that he is deficient in the many factors you address that DO factor into FICO).
quote:Nah. I actually think we're arguing despite agreeing. I think you've misunderstood what I'm trying to say.
No it isn't. You appear to be speaking about 2 different, conflicting things at the same time.
quote:This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say. I mean, EXACTLY.
100 random blacks and suggesting the whites will have a better average FICO score than the blacks, I might tend to agree with you. But, it is because of actual credit practices of this population,
Like I said. I think we're arguing while agreeing. I'm taking exactly the position you just articulated.
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:16 am to ShortyRob
quote:
This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say. I mean, EXACTLY.
Yea but national averages are irrelevant to one looking for prospective tenants. Its all about what that one individual's score is.
Just like national crime stats are irrelevant. If the black guy applying to rent from me has a clean history, how is it relevant that black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:18 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:Yes. But until you see the score, you can't know it.
Yea but national averages are irrelevant to one looking for prospective tenants. Its all about what that one individual's score is.
Hence, if people were approached differently prior to learning their scores, one can't say "but they had the same score, why were they approached differently!!!"
quote:Didn't help me. My white dude with the 700+ score is in jail.
Just like national crime stats are irrelevant. If the black guy applying to rent from me has a clean history, how is it relevant that black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes?
Posted on 11/7/14 at 10:21 am to onmymedicalgrind
quote:
Yea but national averages are irrelevant to one looking for prospective tenants. Its all about what that one individual's score is.
Yeah - Rob is asserting an irrelevant statistical fact. I thought he was implying something else, and he kept doubling down with either inaccurate or misleading implications.
quote:
Just like national crime stats are irrelevant. If the black guy applying to rent from me has a clean history, how is it relevant that black males are statistically more likely to commit crimes?
Exactly - while I might defend the police's choice to scour a nearby black neighborhood to search for a black suspect in a reported crime (I know, I know, "Profiling is wrong") - having a white and black rental application does not give me the right to assume the white will refrain from criminal activity and the black will engage in it, based on statistical data that is irrelevant to their applications.
I shouldn't assume all white males from 25 to 50 are serial killers, just because most serial killers come from that demographic.
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