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Message
re: Police going back to 9mm?
Posted on 1/27/13 at 12:22 pm to hashbrowns
Posted on 1/27/13 at 12:22 pm to hashbrowns
I agree that they are bad shots. NYPD has made this a fact. I am saying that the size of the gun makes no difference. At least between a 19 and 17 or a 23 and a 22.
0
Posted on 1/27/13 at 12:31 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
quote:
So why has only the 9mm technology advanced but the .40 has not?
They both have but the smaller, lighter bullets depend on it more. A .40 that failed to mushroom will fail less than a 9mm that failed to mushroom. Don't mistake, me, I believe .45>.40>9mm.
quote:
I agree that they are shitty shooters but what is a big gun? Glock 19, 17? Same size as a Glock 22 and 23, you know that, right? Same size gun, Same technology
I should have said "big bullet." One that causes more recoil.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 12:35 pm to Cold Pizza
Annnnnnndddd we are back on the same page. I agree with everything you said.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 12:46 pm to Cold Pizza
I only own one .40 handgun, but to me there is no difference shooting it than a 9mm. However, I could see how there would be a difference in recoil could be felt to smaller/less experienced shooters.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 1:33 pm to DrTyger
Only trannies think the .40 has a bad recoil.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 1:34 pm to USMCTiger03
IMO a .40's recoil is not bad at all.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 1:57 pm to USMCTiger03
Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:02 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
I personally carry a 9mm..... Switched out the Glock 22 for the 17 and haven't regretted it at all. I consistently shoot a perfect score every year for requal.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:19 pm to cosmicdingo
I didn't read the all 11 pages of the link. It's not surprising police departments are moving to the 9mm and away from the 40 S&W. A number of factors are in play:
1. The initial move away from the 9mm and eventually to the 40 S&W was based largely on ballistic tests and recommendations by the FBI following the "FBI Miami Shootout." The 38 Special and 9mm loads in use at the time didn't penetrate adequately. The FBI initially recommended changing to the 10mm Auto. The 10mm's heavier recoil proved a challenge to manage, leading the the FBI to change to a lesser recoiling round, the "10mm Lite." The 40 S&W eventually evolved from the 10mm Auto. Had today's current 9mm loads been available, the FBI might not have changed to the 10mm. Interesting synopsis of the "Miami Shootout" here: LINK
2. Compared to the 40 S&W, the 9mm is less expensive to shoot, easier to shoot (due to less recoil and less muzzle flip) and carries more rounds (than a comparably sized 40). The decreased recoil and muzzle flip of the 9mm can be very advantageous, especially when training police officers. Remember, a number of police officers are NOT that in to guns.
3. While the improved ballistics of the newer loads have benefited all self defense calibers, the 9mm has benefited more than the 40 and 45. The 9mm is not superior to the bigger ones, but all of them have very similar effectiveness.
1. The initial move away from the 9mm and eventually to the 40 S&W was based largely on ballistic tests and recommendations by the FBI following the "FBI Miami Shootout." The 38 Special and 9mm loads in use at the time didn't penetrate adequately. The FBI initially recommended changing to the 10mm Auto. The 10mm's heavier recoil proved a challenge to manage, leading the the FBI to change to a lesser recoiling round, the "10mm Lite." The 40 S&W eventually evolved from the 10mm Auto. Had today's current 9mm loads been available, the FBI might not have changed to the 10mm. Interesting synopsis of the "Miami Shootout" here: LINK
2. Compared to the 40 S&W, the 9mm is less expensive to shoot, easier to shoot (due to less recoil and less muzzle flip) and carries more rounds (than a comparably sized 40). The decreased recoil and muzzle flip of the 9mm can be very advantageous, especially when training police officers. Remember, a number of police officers are NOT that in to guns.
3. While the improved ballistics of the newer loads have benefited all self defense calibers, the 9mm has benefited more than the 40 and 45. The 9mm is not superior to the bigger ones, but all of them have very similar effectiveness.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:21 pm to weagle99
that's a badass car and brings back some great mammories...
Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:27 pm to Cold Pizza
Read something recently about 9mm and over penetration issues compared to the .40.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:46 pm to Glock17
Sorry to bump this old post but I wanted to clear the air. I was not saying that the 9mm is a bad round. But I do believe that the .40 is better.
I am sure that you shoot better with a 17 than you do a 22. The recoil is much less and the ammo is much cheaper so hopefully you practice more than you did before. The stopping power is where the difference will be seen.
I am sure that you shoot better with a 17 than you do a 22. The recoil is much less and the ammo is much cheaper so hopefully you practice more than you did before. The stopping power is where the difference will be seen.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:59 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
Less money for the rounds, less recoil, and more bullets. 9mm is adequate.
It is sort of like the guy that goes whitetail hunting in the woods of south Louisiana and uses a .300 Weatherby Magnum when all you really need is a 30-30. There is nothing wrong with it, but it is going to cost you more money and your more likely to flinch because of greater recoil.
It is sort of like the guy that goes whitetail hunting in the woods of south Louisiana and uses a .300 Weatherby Magnum when all you really need is a 30-30. There is nothing wrong with it, but it is going to cost you more money and your more likely to flinch because of greater recoil.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:13 pm to cssamerican
Which would you rather get shot with, one time? Thats how I often consider the situation. I have seen lots of LEO shoot outs last minutes but very very few civilian shoot outs last more than a few shots.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:15 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
Am I the only one who doesn't think the .40 recoil is that bad?
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:19 pm to JAB528
A few people chimed in and said they wernt pussies. I am still unsure why one would choose to carry a full size 9mm over a 40. Capacity, my G23 holds 13 +1. Thats quite a lot for a compact pistol. Price of ammo has never dictated which caliber I carry, but thats just me. And the recoil is on par with each other. Of course the 40 has more, but I am shooting a much larger bullet too.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:19 pm to JAB528
quote:
Am I the only one who doesn't think the .40 recoil is that bad?
Nope, not bad at all. But police need all the ammo they need.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:31 pm to hashbrowns
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:32 pm to hashbrowns
You got that right
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:34 pm to Ice Cream Sammich
quote:
I have seen lots of LEO shoot outs last minutes but very very few civilian shoot outs last more than a few shots.
Shot placement is most likely going to determine how long the shoot out last. A bullet in the head or center mass is going to end the shoot out, regardless of 9mm or .40.
And while round cost might not matter to an individual, it does matter to an organization that buy thousands and thousands of rounds. When they decide what round to use they are doing a cost benefit analysis, when you decide your doing whatever you think gives you the best chance and cost doesn't matter as long as it isn't astronomical. There is a difference
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