re: Police going back to 9mm?

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The permanent cavity of a 40, 45, 9mm, or even 38 +P often times can't even be distinguished in gunshot victims.

Link?

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You are trying to use uniform stats again. A .40 cal shot in one scenario and/or set of conditions may not perform the same as the same .40 cal under a different set of conditions. This is why I said pistols punch holes. Punch the holes in the right places.

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In the gelatin test there was a distinct difference. If you ignore that, why not ignore the whole test all together? I mean you cant pick and choose what works well for your argument.

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There is not a distinct difference in the bare gelatin test as far as cavity. There are slight differences. That was the point of my posting the pictures. The difference I was showing was the penetration. Another point from the link is to show all the different applications of different ammo and their designs. The critical duty is made to penetrate those common barriers, but not over penetrate if that makes sense. This point is even more applicable in rifle rounds. That urban .223 load is meant for people not barriers. Then again there are rifle rounds meant for people wearing armor and standing behind vehicles too.

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Which would you rather be shot by, 9mm or 40?

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This has no relevance. Can a grenade make you "deader" than a .22?

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I'm curious what brand/bullet weight of ammo was used for the ballistic gelatin pics you posted?

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All Hornady

45 AUTO+P 220 GR FLEXLOCK® CRITICAL DUTY®
9MM LUGER+P 135 GR FLEXLOCK® CRITICAL DUTY®
40 S&W 175 GR FLEXLOCK® CRITICAL DUTY®

I asked the Hornady guy that came to our agency and shot our gelatin why the 9 did better than the .40. He state that they are essentially the same. With one you have more mass going slower and the other less mass but more velocity. The less mass is in diameter and it is moving faster = basic physics in that the 9mm has to make a smaller hole while having more energy to do it. The expansion and weight retention of the 9 and 40 are basically the same after impact. The 45 has more mass to the point that its slower velocity does not impact its performance as much. Again more weight and less rounds. Pros and Cons.

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Since you still cant answer the question, Ill make it easier.

A. I would rather be shot in the leg my a 9mm.
B. I would rather be shot in the leg by a 40cal.



In your previous post you posted about the military and such, I agree with your hypothesis. Vietnam conflict for agrees too.

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I'd rather not be shot period. However, getting shot in the leg between those two is not near as important as where in the leg you get shot.

To the second part of this quote, you have read "On Killing" correct?


Enjoying the back and forth so I hope you are not taking it personal. My shop issues Glock 22s. I choose to carry a 17.

Its all good. You are a LEO and have much more experience than I do. I have lots of family and friends who are LEOs as well but its obviously not the same. I am just a civilian shooting enthusiast.

"On Killing"?

Since you wont answer the question, I will. I would rather be shot in the leg by a 9mm. I dont care where in the leg I am going to be shot, I would rather it be a 9mm.

Is your answer different? Of course not getting shot is optimal, but not for this question.

Added it to my cart. I'll get it next time I make a purchase from amazon.

Still no answer?

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Cadello Police going back to 9mm? .40 cal and 40 S&W are the same bullet?

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Yes

Doesn't matter to me. You can shoot me with a .40 provided I get to shoot you will my 9 first.

Some do, some don't. My shop has requirements that must be met for a sidearm. Like I said we are issued Glock 22s. My 17 meets requirements that are stated in our policy.