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Message
re: Wisconsin Hospital Replaces All Anesthesiologists with CRNAs
Posted on 4/7/21 at 8:56 pm to MrSpock
Posted on 4/7/21 at 8:56 pm to MrSpock
its because the nurse lobbying is extraordinarily effective. and it is able to expand breadth and depth without accepting the same liability as physicians.
in instances of states voting on expanding scope for nurses, nurse lobbying withdraws support if the scope expansion is dependent on being regulated by medical boards to ensure the nurses are held to the same standards of care. They want the same scope but not at the cost of having the same responsibility.
in instances of states voting on expanding scope for nurses, nurse lobbying withdraws support if the scope expansion is dependent on being regulated by medical boards to ensure the nurses are held to the same standards of care. They want the same scope but not at the cost of having the same responsibility.
2
Posted on 4/7/21 at 8:57 pm to greenwave
I can close my eyes and picture crazy4lsu. Coolest dude is his class. Now him and his buddies gonna take out their anger and revenge on nps. So frickin tough.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 8:59 pm to Success
quote:
Now him and his buddies gonna take out their anger and revenge on nps
By sleeping with nurses, yes.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 8:59 pm to crazy4lsu
Yeah I think you will find most NPs you work with highly respect the physicians they work for and provide great service.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 9:00 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:00 pm to Success
quote:
I’m messing. I know a nurse can do all those things. These anesthesiologists act like they’re EP docs. Frick. AAs can do anesthesia.
Sorry, didn’t initially catch the humor.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:00 pm to AMS
How can you say a Crna doesn't have the same liability as an Anesthesiologist? They carry their own med mal insurance and can be held to the same accountability as any MD in Anesthesia.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:03 pm to greenwave
quote:
What area of practice you going in?
Don't know for sure. There hasn't been a system or subject I've disliked yet.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:05 pm to AMS
quote:
its because the nurse lobbying is extraordinarily effective. and it is able to expand breadth and depth without accepting the same liability as physicians.
in instances of states voting on expanding scope for nurses, nurse lobbying withdraws support if the scope expansion is dependent on being regulated by medical boards to ensure the nurses are held to the same standards of care. They want the same scope but not at the cost of having the same responsibility.
That may be the case with the NP’s but not the CRNA’s. I would want to be held to the same standards and liability.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:07 pm to tiger61
quote:
How can you say a Crna doesn't have the same liability as an Anesthesiologist? They carry their own med mal insurance and can be held to the same accountability as any MD in Anesthesia.
first of all because they just don't and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
their med mal is not the same liability. even medical students have med mal, which is also not the same as an independent physician. they do not answer to the medical board which sets the standards of medical care.
ETA if the doc gets in trouble they could lose their license to practice entirely, cRNAs just lose their ability to be an anesthetist and can continue working as a nurse.
This post was edited on 4/7/21 at 9:17 pm
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:13 pm to AMS
quote:
their med mal is not the same liability. even medical students have med mal, which is also not the same as an independent physician. they do not answer to the medical board which sets the standards of medical care.
CRNA’s carry 1mil/3mil and contribute to the states compensation fund. Students also have to carry a liability policy while in school.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:14 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Don't know for sure. There hasn't been a system or subject I've disliked yet.
good way to narrow it down, medical vs surgical is the first decision.
clinic or hospital and generalist vs specialist.
once you kinda get the clue on those figure out what aspects of medicine you hate and eliminate those. like I dont want to regularly deal with cops/lawyers and do loads of social work type things so psych and EM are out. after that youll probably have 1-2 fields left you could see yourself doing.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:19 pm to AMS
quote:
first of all because they just don't and anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
You serious with this answer? I hope you have some evidence to back this up. Because you need to fact check it.
quote:
their med mal is not the same liability. even medical students have med mal, which is also not the same as an independent physician. they do not answer to the medical board which sets the standards of medical care.
Crna's are part of the medical staff just like physicians at hospitals and are held to the same standards and bylaws by hospital administrators. Their malpractice insurance is no different than a physicians malpractice insurance. Crna's have just as much liability as Anesthesiologist.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:29 pm to AMS
quote:
once you kinda get the clue on those figure out what aspects of medicine you hate and eliminate those. like I dont want to regularly deal with cops/lawyers and do loads of social work type things so psych and EM are out. after that youll probably have 1-2 fields left you could see yourself doing.
My PhD work is on through the molecular biology and biochem program, and the systems that seemed to have lots of overlap were endo, neuro and GI. The PhD work feels limiting a bit, though students have done remarkably different dissertations from their specialties, which doesn't make sense to me at the moment, but it might eventually.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:32 pm to tiger61
quote:
Crna's are part of the medical staff just like physicians at hospitals and are held to the same standards and bylaws by hospital administrators. Their malpractice insurance is no different than a physicians malpractice insurance. Crna's have just as much liability as Anesthesiologist.
this is just incorrect.
their med mal is different. it is a lower price as a nurse does not bear primary responsibility for negligence.
also if anesthesiologist gets in trouble their medical license may be revoked and they cannot work anymore. A cRNA gets in trouble may lose their ability to be an anesthetist but they still have a job as a nurse.
physicians answer to medical boards, nurses do not.
the liability much like training is just not equivalent.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:33 pm to tiger61
Yeah there are a surprising number of physicians here (or people pretending to be physicians) who have absolutely no idea how liability and medical malpractice suits work.
CRNAs can be named in a suit just like every physician involved in that patients care. They can also be found liable for any aspect of care in which they are found to have been negligent. And once again, no, the surgeon is not automatically liable for CRNA mistakes. Though in most cases there was probably some peri operative decision making issues that the surgeon was responsible which would have contributed to the bad outcome, and they can often times be found liable to some degree (ie ignored abnormal EKG, failed to get cardiac clearance, CRNA pushes propofol without checking chart, cardiac event, patient dies, everyone involved is ruled to be at fault)
CRNAs can be named in a suit just like every physician involved in that patients care. They can also be found liable for any aspect of care in which they are found to have been negligent. And once again, no, the surgeon is not automatically liable for CRNA mistakes. Though in most cases there was probably some peri operative decision making issues that the surgeon was responsible which would have contributed to the bad outcome, and they can often times be found liable to some degree (ie ignored abnormal EKG, failed to get cardiac clearance, CRNA pushes propofol without checking chart, cardiac event, patient dies, everyone involved is ruled to be at fault)
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:37 pm to coondaddy21
quote:
That may be the case with the NP’s but not the CRNA’s. I would want to be held to the same standards and liability.
it is true for both.
you may want to be held to the same standards, but you are not. its because you are not as trained nor qualified.
this does not demean your work and does not mean you are incompetent. im cool with cRNAs but that is just not equivalent and it is dishonest to suggest otherwise.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:43 pm to YipSkiddlyDooo
quote:
the surgeon was responsible which would have contributed to the bad outcome, and they can often times be found liable to some degree (ie ignored abnormal EKG, failed to get cardiac clearance, CRNA pushes propofol without checking chart,
That is the surgeon’s responsibility? Who knew? What the hell am I even doing all day then?
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:46 pm to BeaumontBengal
quote:
That is the surgeon’s responsibility? Who knew? What the hell am I even doing all day then?
I’m not sure what your question is or what you don’t understand
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:46 pm to crazy4lsu
I’ve worked with hundreds of CRNAs and anesthesiologists. The best of the best are without a doubt anesthesiologists. Are there CRNAs more competent than some MDs? Yes. Are the best CRNAs as good as the best anesthesiologists. Hell no and it’s not even close.
If you’re healthy and having a minor procedure I wouldn’t object to a crna doing it solo. If you’re unhealthy and/or having a major operation you need a physician involved in your care. If a hospital goes crna only they are saying they don’t do high risk stuff or they don’t give a shite about quality.
There is a saying in medicine about about mid levels and providers with less training: “you don’t know what you don’t know”. In my experience there is nothing more dangerous than a cocky mid level.
If you’re healthy and having a minor procedure I wouldn’t object to a crna doing it solo. If you’re unhealthy and/or having a major operation you need a physician involved in your care. If a hospital goes crna only they are saying they don’t do high risk stuff or they don’t give a shite about quality.
There is a saying in medicine about about mid levels and providers with less training: “you don’t know what you don’t know”. In my experience there is nothing more dangerous than a cocky mid level.
Posted on 4/7/21 at 9:47 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
My PhD work is on through the molecular biology and biochem program, and the systems that seemed to have lots of overlap were endo, neuro and GI. The PhD work feels limiting a bit, though students have done remarkably different dissertations from their specialties, which doesn't make sense to me at the moment, but it might eventually.
well im not in the phd world so keep that in mind with my advice. with that info, I assume it means you would want a more academic residency program. So you would probably lean specialist over generalist and hospital over clinic.
so figure out medical vs surgical and things you would hate to be a major part of your practice. youll figure it out. keep it up
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