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re: What would’ve happened if Britain had surrendered in WWII?
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:39 pm to fr33manator
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:39 pm to fr33manator
quote:
Was it Patton that said we fought the wrong enemy? Without the western front the Germans could have possibly toppled the soviets before they had a chance to come to full strength. It’s an interesting discussion
yep, instead of ww2 it becomes a war between russia and germany for europe and then the US against japan for the pacific islands.
i think if that came to pass then germany would be spent and not have the resources or will to challenge us, and equally we would have no want or will to argue about a settled war in europe after we beat japan in a very costly pacific war
an even more interesting question is without us, does germany get the A-bomb first? and i think the answer to that is yes.
if we arent in the war, we dont get to steal the rocket and A-bomb technology and the scientist who created it from germany as we did.
and im of the opinion hitler wouldnt give that tech to japan so i dont think we win without invading japan itself.
4
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:42 pm to keakar
quote:
if we arent in the war, we dont get to steal the rocket and A-bomb technology and the scientist who created it from germany as we did.
Right? People forget that we have a Whole lot of nazis to thank for our space program and much of the tech developed in the Cold War.
Look up. Operation Paperclip
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:45 pm to fr33manator
quote:
And interesting alternate strategy in this scenario (are we assuming japan still attacks US?)
Would be to let the Germans wear themselves thin fighting the commies while we are fighting the japs, then attack a depleted Germany once they have defeated the Soviets and Japan taps out.
Because to be perfectly honest, the Soviets did most of the heavy lifting in WW2 against the Germans.
In the two years before Pearl Harbor, Germany gave every appearance of being unstoppable. It was dicy to assume we could afford to let them punch themselves out. Meanwhile Japan made us mad and achieved some spectacular early successes, but geography imposed strict limits on how much they could ultimately do to us. A victorious Germany would have been an existential threat to the United States.
By WWII the Soviets still gave lip service to global revolution, but were far more interested in consolidating and holding on to the status quo. The Nazis really intended to conquer the world in a multigenerational campaign.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:46 pm to keakar
Germany’s military wasn’t as strong as they would have liked you to think. The whole operation was a house of cards led by a nut bar who meddled with every minut military detail Assuming Britain falls before America could get in the war, the US would have had all of its might in the pacific, quickly ending the war against Japan. Once Japan was defeated, we would have re evaluated our stance in Europe and likely joined the guerella fighters in France and Britain. All this while the Soviets were deep dicking the Germans. Germany didn’t have the men, weapons, and resources that they led people to believe they had. Neither did Russia for that matter, but the Ruskies would have overwhelmed with numbers
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:50 pm to BatonrougeCajun
quote:
Assuming Britain falls before America could get in the war, the US would have had all of its might in the pacific, quickly ending the war against Japan.
If Britain falls, so does the Dutch government in exile, which means Japan can negotiate with Germany for access to the East Indies oil fields. The Pacific war may not take place at all.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:51 pm to BatonrougeCajun
quote:
the US would have had all of its might in the pacific, quickly ending the war against Japan.
Another interesting though is the timeline for American victory in the Pacific. Would the full force of the American ground forces speed up victory in that theatre? If so, how many more casualties do the Americans suffer in the Pacific by having to attack the main island with an amphibious assault? In this scenario the timeline for the Manhattan project remains unchanged.
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 9:53 pm
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:53 pm to BatonrougeCajun
Then Rommel and The Afrika Korp would have taken Egypt and the Suez Canal... That would have cut off all the Mediterranean and all Southern Europe.
The US would have lost a staging point for invasion... No way the USA could launch an invasion from the US.
Russian would have never had that second front.
The US would have lost a staging point for invasion... No way the USA could launch an invasion from the US.
Russian would have never had that second front.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:53 pm to VolsOut4Harambe
Wouldn’t have happened, if only because the Nazis didn’t have the ability to invade England and would have gotten their asses handed to them if they tried because of the logistical mess it would be.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:54 pm to teke184
quote:
Wouldn’t have happened, if only because the Nazis didn’t have the ability to invade England and would have gotten their asses handed to them if they tried because of the logistical mess it would be.
They did try. Do you even Battle of Britain?
Posted on 12/18/18 at 9:59 pm to keakar
I don’t think they get the A bomb if only because of the brain drain due to their Jewish policies.
We got a lot of the brightest minds like Einstein while Germany sat around with its thumb up its arse ignoring potential solutions because they originated from Jewish scientists’ theories.
As far as rocket scientists go, we got Von Braun etc after the war, not during the war.
We were able to come up with the bomb with the scientists we had but we still had to put it in bombers because we hadn’t invented or really pursued rocketry.
We got a lot of the brightest minds like Einstein while Germany sat around with its thumb up its arse ignoring potential solutions because they originated from Jewish scientists’ theories.
As far as rocket scientists go, we got Von Braun etc after the war, not during the war.
We were able to come up with the bomb with the scientists we had but we still had to put it in bombers because we hadn’t invented or really pursued rocketry.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:02 pm to fr33manator
A prolonged air battle to soften up the country =\= Operation Sealion, which was the planned amphibious assault of England.
They may have sieged England but they had limited weapons and ammunition right after Dunkirk and the extended siege gave them an opportunity to rearm provided they could protect factories and convoys from the Luftwaffe and U boats.
They may have sieged England but they had limited weapons and ammunition right after Dunkirk and the extended siege gave them an opportunity to rearm provided they could protect factories and convoys from the Luftwaffe and U boats.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:02 pm to fr33manator
Yup.. The Time and way to attack Britain was by invasion right after Dunkirk... But Hitler thought that he could defeat Russian before England rebuilt up it's equipment again and the US could manufacture and ship enough War Goods, men and material...
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 10:03 pm
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:04 pm to teke184
If I recall in my research they definitely had some probing invasions that were rebuffed.
And in OPs scenario, Dunkirk doesn’t happen.
And in OPs scenario, Dunkirk doesn’t happen.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:09 pm to fr33manator
The OP said armistice but didn’t lay out any details on when or what circumstances.
Given the way things played out, the logical place for an armistice to be reached would be after Dunkirk, when the British army was a spent force.
Given the way things played out, the logical place for an armistice to be reached would be after Dunkirk, when the British army was a spent force.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:10 pm to Loaner1231
quote:
Another interesting though is the timeline for American victory in the Pacific. Would the full force of the American ground forces speed up victory in that theatre? If so, how many more casualties do the Americans suffer in the Pacific by having to attack the main island with an amphibious assault? In this scenario the timeline for the Manhattan project remains unchanged.
IYAM the German threat would still loom on the other side of the Atlantic. Maybe moreso than in our timeline. We would put tremendous resources into defending the East Coast, Iceland, Greenland, Cuba and the Carribean. South America, with its large German populations in Brazil, Argentina, and other countries, would be a Cold War focal point that may turn hot. As long as Japan didnt directly threaten our interests, they may have had a green light in the Pacific.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:23 pm to VolsOut4Harambe
Poppycock and nonsense. We would have never surrendered. Just like you Yanks didn't surrender when we burned down your Capital.
Never Surrender!
Never Surrender!
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:23 pm to VolsOut4Harambe
We still would have won. We had nuclear bombs and the Germans didn’t.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:27 pm to Loaner1231
quote:
The US leaves the Reich to their druthers and Asia is a vastly different continent than what you have today. The “Jewish question” becomes the “Muslim question” and they are liquidated along with all non-Aryans.
Even in your historical fictions, you people are deluded.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:46 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Even in your historical fictions, you people are deluded
I’ll bite, how so? And honestly, what do you mean by “you people”?
This post was edited on 12/18/18 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 12/18/18 at 10:47 pm to crazy4lsu
If I recall, didn’t the Nazis recruit some Muslim fighters,
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