re: What if Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union

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The Japanese had clashed with Russia on the Mongolian border in 1939 and gotten their asses kicked. They wanted no part of a repeat. Japan had a modern Navy and Air Force, but its Army was stuck in WWI, with almost no armored force. Even after Stalin's purge of the officer corps, the Red Army was more than a match for anything Japan could throw at it.

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I would also imagine moving that many troops, supplies, and machinery through the barren areas of eastern Russia(Siberia), would have been a logistical nightmare. It seems the Japanese were more set up for island hopping in conjunction with its Imperial Navy. They probably would have overextended themselves with trying to take that much territory.

The logical sequence for Japan and Germany should of been:
1.) to conquer Britain
2.) both invade Russia, open 2 fronts
3.) deal with the USA

It's easy to use hindsight now, but the reality is Russia and the USA wouldn't of let Germany and Japan do all of that. It would of been too dangerous for us as all of our allies would of been wiped out. Japan bombing Pearl har I was supposed to be a strategic strike, they should of invaded and took over the islands. That would of been a game changer.

There has long been speculation that had the Germans not marched east in June 1941, the Soviets would have marched west probably sometime around 1943 once the Red Army had rebuilt and recovered from the purges of the 30's.

What if Nazi Germany had begun to fully mobilize its economy for a long war back in, say, 1936 or 1937?

In 1941 at the time they invaded Russia, Germany was so short of war material and equipment that they had to use tanks, artillery and vehicles that they captured from France and Czechoslovakia. Surely that captured equipment was not in great shape when the Germans got it. Surely, there would not be enough spare parts to properly maintain this foreign equipment -- there weren't.

So, when did Nazi Germany's economy go on a full war footing? Most would tell you that it happened in 1943. That is largely the correct answer, but, it's also correct to say that Nazi Germany NEVER put its entire economy on a full war-footing. For example, Germany never put its women in the workforce. Use of scarce manpower labor and construction materials for monuments and other unimportant construction projects unrelated to war never ended. Every local Nazi leader had his pet construction project, such as a monument. Hitler never shut that down.

Finally, when was the German railroad system fully mobilized for war? Not until 1942. For example, in late 1941, the German railroad system was about to collapse. It could not provide adequate numbers of locomotives and rolling stock. The problem? The method of production for locomotives had never changed to modern assembly line methods. The Germans were still making locomotives by hand, one by one, by craftsmen.

Albert Speer was able to make some improvements, but he wasn't hired to do so until 1942, which was too late.

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In your opinion what would Europe look like today were he not to try and take Moscow?

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Probably not overrun with Muslims

This is a bit off topic, but did anyone watch last night's Anthony Bourdain? He was in Georgia (the country) and there is a certain part of the country Russia took over and the people who live in that region (which is rural) say that since 2008 *when Russia took over that certain part), they will wake up any random day and all of a sudden they or their neighbors are all of a sudden in Russia because at night they move this barbwire fence a few meters into Georgia every once in awhile..

Anyway, the only way Hitler would have never invaded the SU was if there were no Hitler.

Hitler was a madman propagandist, not a military genius.

He made two fatal mistakes:

Terrorizing England and London, rather than strategically bombing them. (Churchill was never going to give up)

And, to this thread, it wasn't the point of going into Russia. Several posters here correctly stated that it was inevitable, and a couple more were right about oil in Russia that the Nazis needed. But, any decent military man or historian would have known that you NEVER, EVER, EVER invade Moscow/Russia in the winter. EVER. He should have listened to his generals and went south to get the oil, rather than march fatally to Moscow. But, Hitler at this point had clearly lost his head. So:

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There has long been speculation that had the Germans not marched east in June 1941, the Soviets would have marched west probably sometime around 1943 once the Red Army had rebuilt and recovered from the purges of the 30's.

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From the mid-1930s through the end of 1941, the Red Army was in the process of standing up 10 (yes TEN!) airborne divisions. Not all were operational when Barbarossa was launched and these types of troops, while outstanding, were relatively useless for defense, mostly converted to Guards Rifle regiments,fought as straight leg infantry in the desperate battles of 1941 and 1942, and essentially wasted.

But do you suppose Stalin wanted 10 Airborne divisions for parades?

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From the mid-1930s through the end of 1941, the Red Army was in the process of standing up 10 (yes TEN!) airborne divisions. Not all were operational when Barbarossa was launched and these types of troops, while outstanding, were relatively useless for defense, mostly converted to Guards Rifle regiments,fought as straight leg infantry in the desperate battles of 1941 and 1942, and essentially wasted.


But do you suppose Stalin wanted 10 Airborne divisions for parades?

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Bingo. There was going to be a war between the Soviets and Germany. Hitler just beat Stalin to the punch. The Germans knew the Soviets were undertaking a massive rebuilding program to build the Red Army back up (kinda like what Russia is doing right now BTW) and the Germans knew they'd be fully rearmed by 1943. And as anyone who's ever studied anything about Germany knows, the biggest fear the Germans have had for a very long time is a fully armed and prepared Russia sitting on their frontier.

Solid points. But I will disagree with you on one thing....

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Goering was never great at anything he tried in his life: not a great fighter pilot, not a great leader, not a great organizational manager -- and by 1942 Goering was addicted to morphine and very erratic.

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Goring was actually a very good fighter pilot in WWI. He was highly decorated, including multiple Iron Crosses and the Pour le Merite. And as a testament of his ability at that time he was selected to replace Manfred von Richthofen as the commander of JG1 after the death of the Red Baron. As for his addiction to morphine, that stemmed from the wounds he received during the failed Beer Hall Putsch in 1923. It was then that his nose dive started.