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re: What do you think should happen in this case ?
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:24 am to Tortious
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:24 am to Tortious
quote:
No unless dealer mislead them somehow or misrepresented something to them.
That wouldn't matter either. The dealer would be under no obligation to disclose the value. The only conflict would be if the dealer also acted as an appraiser. That would be illegal in many places, but doesn't stop some people from doing it.
0
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:24 am to Baylor
Turning $157 into 4 million is probably an antiquetiger wet dream.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:26 am to Baylor
I don't think he is obligated to do anything, but I think he should give them a cut.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:26 am to Baylor
To sleep better at night, I think I would give something back to them. Like an anonymous $500 donation to the local food pantry in their name for example.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:28 am to Baylor
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:28 am to LSURussian
quote:
No, but since the case is in France what's likely to happen is the court will force the art dealer to give the old couple all the money from the auction of the mask and then the old couple will get to stand in front of the art dealer and fart in his general direction...
You’re confusing French law with Canadian law.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:30 am to Baylor
quote:This is what the case will hinge on.
The couple’s argument hinges on the suspicion that the dealer had a good idea of the true value of the object when he bought it from them. The antiques dealer did not display the mask at his shop and instead contacted the auction houses Drouot Estimation and Fauve Paris, which estimated it to be worth about €100–€120, and €400–€600 respectively.
Kinda like getting an appraisal on something by a professional and they lie to you about its value or authenticity. Then lowball you into selling it to them.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:30 am to Baylor
quote:
Should the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
why should he? it was a fair trade sounds like at the time of their deal. your responsibility to know the worth of something if youre going sell it.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:32 am to Baylor
quote:
hould the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
No. Now, could he share something with them because of his profit, yes. But should he, no.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:32 am to Baylor
quote:
Should the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
umm no...why the frick would he? and who the frick thinks that he should? its a free market.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:35 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
This is what the case will hinge on.
Kinda like getting an appraisal on something by a professional and they lie to you about its value or authenticity. Then lowball you into selling it to them.
Where does it stop, though? If I buy something for $5 and sell it for $700+ do I owe the person I bought it from? I've done just that with a box of Kodak slides. Bought a box full of them for $5 and sold just 8 of them for over $700 (there were military slides in them).
If the buyer wasn't also acting as an appraiser I don't have an issue with it. Personally, I'd consider cutting them in.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:38 am to Baylor
Everybody saying he doesn't owe them anything...
There are legal obligations and moral obligations.
I wonder how you would all feel if this was your elderly and compromised parents or grandparents.
There are legal obligations and moral obligations.
I wonder how you would all feel if this was your elderly and compromised parents or grandparents.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:38 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
This is what the case will hinge on.
Kinda like getting an appraisal on something by a professional and they lie to you about its value or authenticity. Then lowball you into selling it to them.
thats bullshite
sorry but its his job to max profit margin, the old couple has the same obligation. they made a fair trade.
and who did the old couple get it from? if he has to pay the old couple, do they have to pay the guy they got it from? where does it end?
frick that....shouldnt have made the deal if you didnt like the terms. you made the deal with a lack of knowledge, nobodies fault but their own and they should learn to live with the consequences.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:47 am to bhtigerfan
quote:
quote:The couple’s argument hinges on the suspicion that the dealer had a good idea of the true value of the object when he bought it from them. The antiques dealer did not display the mask at his shop and instead contacted the auction houses Drouot Estimation and Fauve Paris, which estimated it to be worth about €100–€120, and €400–€600 respectively.
And then
quote:
Despite these valuations given by two auctioneers, he went on to seek a third opinion from a specialized sale of African objects in Montpellier. After ordering analysis using carbon-14 dating and mass spectrometry, the mask was dated to the 19th century and an ethnologist’s expert appraisal revealed it was used for purification rites by the Ngil society, a secret society that operated within the Fang ethnic group in Gabon until the 1920s.
The auction house placed the mask for sale with an estimate of between €300,000 and €400,000. The mask was sold for €4.2 million, about $4.4 million, at an auction in March 2022.
He put in a lot of effort probably had to pay for the testing.
And then just because someone was willing to pay 10x the third appraisal value at auction doesn’t mean he should kick much if any to them.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:49 am to Havoc
yep frick them old fricks. should have had their own testing done.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:50 am to Huey Lewis
quote:
Turning $157 into 4 million is probably an antiquetiger wet dream.
AT would have bargained them down to $7
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:54 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Thats what I was thinking as well. And how would you prove that at the time the couple sold this mask, this guy was aware of its true value?
He may not be aware of it's true value, which in art is highly subjective, but if he were a collector he could know it is worth far more than what he paid for it. That could be fraudulent - fraud doesn't always have to be an overt representation. It's like the WWII Collector dude here who collects stuff. With his experience and expertise, he probably could recognize something and know it's worth a lot even if he doesn't know precisely how much. All would depend on how the transaction went down in my opinion.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:55 am to Baylor
quote:
Should the dealer have to give the couple some of the profits ?
In my generation, it would have been a gift of some sort
In this generation, no way this happens
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:55 am to Baylor
quote:
for $157
Quite the odd number here.
Posted on 10/5/23 at 9:55 am to Tortious
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