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re: What do you consider middle class?
Posted on 2/9/20 at 11:02 pm to mmmmmbeeer
Posted on 2/9/20 at 11:02 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Do they?
The expansion of medicaid and medicare didn't help the middle class. In fact, many of us got shifted to the bullshite high deductible plans which, for all intents and purposes, are worthless unless you have a major illness or complication.
How about the YUGE tax cut in 2018...we really didn't see shite, especially if you live in a place with higher home prices. And, if you'll recall, we were all supposed to get bonuses and raises and see 6% GDP growth! I haven't seen shite, nor have many other folks in the middle.
How often are we seeing raises unless you change jobs? Companies have dumped pensions which, if you're old enough to remember, were a major employee benefit. Cost of living increases? Hahaha....yeah...not happening. Manufacturing, where it exists, can no longer carry your family into a solid middle/upper-middle standing. College is expensive as shite, unless you're poor or rich.
Worker productivity in the US increases year over year, decade over decade, but worker pay stays the same. If you're satisfied now, you'd be REALLY satisfied if you were getting paid what you should actually be getting paid.
Literally none of that applied to me. My health insurance kicks arse, I got multiple raises and a promotion, and my future is extremely bright.
1
Posted on 2/9/20 at 11:25 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Republicans look out for the rich. Democrats look out for the poor/lower. Meanwhile, those of us in the middle don't see shite and haven't seen shite for decades.
So much wrong here. Democrats do not look out for the poor/lower. Name one thing they have done to improve the lot in life for the lower classes - That has worked.
Middle class have it great. Houses are bigger than ever. Cars are nicer than ever. The problem is people expect and want too much.
Posted on 2/9/20 at 11:49 pm to HarveyBanger
At 100k I’d say that’s about in the middle to lower half. As someone in this area I’d say there are times I feel poor, and other times I feel like I’m doing ok. Not great but just ok.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 12:14 am to ChEgrad
quote:
Middle class have it great. Houses are bigger than ever. Cars are nicer than ever. The problem is people expect and want too much.
What are you talking about? The cost of living and inflation are outpacing wage growth. The middle class is as small as it's ever been.
People are in so much debt. Between student loans, credit cards, and medical bills. Most Americans are one car repair away from defaulting on payments.
Cars are so expensive now they moved to 84 month loans so people could afford the monthly payments.The same trucks that were less than 30k a decade or so or go are approaching 50k.
Child care is 10k + per child and that's for a mediocre daycare. Its closer to 15k for a better one.
Grown men are having to get roommates because rent is so high or they are commuting like an hour because they can't afford to live in the city.
People are working 60 hour weeks or getting 2 jobs just to afford the same lifestyle that was easily attainable off of 1 40 hr a week job in the 90s or early 2000s.
The middle is the absolute worse place to be in America. You get fricked by the rich who don't pay their fair share and the poor just leech off of those who don't really have it to spare.
Government cut taxes and increased the budget and kicked the debt bucket down the road.
Same shite different person in charge of flushing the country down the toilet.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 12:21 am to HarveyBanger
Q. Do you need a job to pay the bills?
A. You are working class.
Q. You have a family trust or established money and you can pick and choose what type of career you want based on your interests? You don't need a job?
A. You are middle class.
Q. You do a lot of philothropy and don't need a job to live?
A. You are upper class.
Q. You have over a billion dollars?
A. You are wealthy.
A. You are working class.
Q. You have a family trust or established money and you can pick and choose what type of career you want based on your interests? You don't need a job?
A. You are middle class.
Q. You do a lot of philothropy and don't need a job to live?
A. You are upper class.
Q. You have over a billion dollars?
A. You are wealthy.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 12:23 am to BhamDore
quote:
What are you talking about? The cost of living and inflation are outpacing wage growth. The middle class is as small as it's ever been.
Life's never been easier, the middle class has access to things that put luxury in the hands of every day man.
Do true cheap credit, rising wages, unrivaled opportunity.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 1:11 am to RogerTheShrubber
How is life easier, but people are working more than ever. Americans work more hours than citizens of every other industrialized country. They also take less vacation, have less leisure time, and retire later than everyone else as well.
Even with all the advances in technology and automation Americans are working more than ever just to afford what was once easily attainable.
As the standard of living increases it has become harder to stay in the middle. Far less people are in the middle. Half of Americans make 31k or less.
It's not sustainable.
When the America was truly great CEOs at the top 350 companies in country earned 30 times more than the average worker.
Meaning that if the average worker earned 50k then the CEO would earn 1.5 million. Now the average worker makes 50k and the CEO earns 15 million. 300 times more than the average worker is excessive. I'm not talking about CEOs that built it from the ground up and went public like Bezos or Zuckerberg. I'm talking glorified baby sitters.
Even though workers are more productive than ever wages are close to flat even though we are close to full employment.
Middle class people can't even afford to procreate. While the government incentivises poor people to have more kids for more benefits.
Corporate Welfare is out of control. The loss of tax revenue from those breaks just gets passed on to the middle class as well.
Even with all the advances in technology and automation Americans are working more than ever just to afford what was once easily attainable.
As the standard of living increases it has become harder to stay in the middle. Far less people are in the middle. Half of Americans make 31k or less.
It's not sustainable.
When the America was truly great CEOs at the top 350 companies in country earned 30 times more than the average worker.
Meaning that if the average worker earned 50k then the CEO would earn 1.5 million. Now the average worker makes 50k and the CEO earns 15 million. 300 times more than the average worker is excessive. I'm not talking about CEOs that built it from the ground up and went public like Bezos or Zuckerberg. I'm talking glorified baby sitters.
Even though workers are more productive than ever wages are close to flat even though we are close to full employment.
Middle class people can't even afford to procreate. While the government incentivises poor people to have more kids for more benefits.
Corporate Welfare is out of control. The loss of tax revenue from those breaks just gets passed on to the middle class as well.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 1:57 am to HarveyBanger
260k between 2 people.
This post was edited on 2/10/20 at 1:59 am
Posted on 2/10/20 at 2:15 am to HarveyBanger
I would say middle class is 80-120k, for a family of 4 I would say less than that and you are probably struggling and making quite a few sacrifices. This would be for Louisiana, outside of New Orleans.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 3:20 am to HarveyBanger
Making +\- 5% of the median income where you live.
This post was edited on 2/10/20 at 3:22 am
Posted on 2/10/20 at 3:52 am to HarveyBanger
Middle class is a state of mind.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:00 am to BhamDore
The amount of jealousy in this thread is humorous.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:08 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
How about the YUGE tax cut in 2018...we really didn't see shite, especially if you live in a place with higher home prices.
I’m sorry I’m no longer subsidizing your high state and local taxes through SALT deductions. It’s time you pay your fair share.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:17 am to HarveyBanger
In an average cost of living situation, I would say $60-$90k for a family of 4 is middle class, $90-$120k upper middle class.
This post was edited on 2/10/20 at 4:18 am
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:21 am to HarveyBanger
The middle class is not that far from being the working poor nowadays. The gap between the two is razor thin. The gap between the middle class and the rich is light years apart.
The middle class thinks it’s rich and the working poor think they’re middle class. Everyone is living outside their means because of the perception of the American Dream.
The middle class thinks it’s rich and the working poor think they’re middle class. Everyone is living outside their means because of the perception of the American Dream.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:44 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
How about the YUGE tax cut in 2018...we really didn't see shite, especially if you live in a place with higher home prices.
Speak for yourself bro. Give me a reduction in federal taxes any and every day.
quote:
And, if you'll recall, we were all supposed to get bonuses and raises and see 6% GDP growth! I haven't seen shite, nor have many other folks in the middle.
Bonuses and raises largely come from individual performances. Yes if companies do well more are given out, but even in lean years high performers get taken care of
quote:
How often are we seeing raises unless you change jobs? Companies have dumped pensions which, if you're old enough to remember, were a major employee benefit
And with people now living longer are massive, massive burdens on employers and especially now on tax payers as state and federal agencies haven’t changed retirement requirements and kept rewards the same.
quote:
Cost of living increases? Hahaha....yeah...not happening.
Gotten one every year as has every person I know other than teachers.
quote:
Manufacturing, where it exists, can no longer carry your family into a solid middle/upper-middle standing.
Yes, repetitive jobs where you do the same thing every day that can rather easily be automated or replaced with a much younger/cheaper person are no longer enough to lift you into the 50%-75% income range.
quote:
College is expensive as shite, unless you're poor or rich.
Agreed. Federally backed student loans, bloated administration, and the lie that every kid needs to go to college has fricked middle class parents and kids
This post was edited on 2/10/20 at 4:51 am
Posted on 2/10/20 at 4:55 am to BhamDore
quote:
Government cut taxes and increased the budget and kicked the debt bucket down the road.
Agree that this is bull shite. When the tax cuts happened, spending cuts should have come with it. I blame the Dems and the big government Republicans (most of them in DC) for this shite.
quote:
Same shite different person in charge of flushing the country down the toilet
Ehh, the current leadership actually tried to get the cuts but the current house and senate didn’t go for it.
I’m not saying the current exec is the best ever or a God or any of that crap, just that the current exec appears to be making moves positive for the American economy and nation
Posted on 2/10/20 at 5:06 am to HarveyBanger
I have a concrete drive. In My neighborhood that is rich.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 5:31 am to Gaston
quote:
Depends where. 120k should do it most places.
quote:
Let’s say for a family of 4.
Maybe in the middle of nowhere or struggling to afford basic necessities only, which isn't really middle class.
This post was edited on 2/10/20 at 5:32 am
Posted on 2/10/20 at 5:38 am to BhamDore
quote:
Cars are so expensive now because they moved to 84 month loans
FIFY
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