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re: United's dragged passenger hires high-powered Chicago personal injury lawyer
Posted on 4/12/17 at 11:37 am to NYNolaguy1
Posted on 4/12/17 at 11:37 am to NYNolaguy1
UA and the dept over the security officers are stupid not to sweep this under the rug. Throw a couple million at the guy and it is over. Let the fire simmer and it blows up even worse.
If the security workers would have escorted the person off by their dept procedures we would not be talking about this issue.
When the security officers committed battery on a person by using excessive force that is where this all went wrong. I never see a policy manual where dragging a man down the aisle is a proper procedure to get someone off a plane. This is where things went bad for UA, security officers, and the dept over the officers.
If the security workers would have escorted the person off by their dept procedures we would not be talking about this issue.
When the security officers committed battery on a person by using excessive force that is where this all went wrong. I never see a policy manual where dragging a man down the aisle is a proper procedure to get someone off a plane. This is where things went bad for UA, security officers, and the dept over the officers.
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Posted on 4/12/17 at 11:50 am to Tiger in NY
There is enough blame on both sides to go around here. United fricked up and let paying passengers board knowing they needed to get X # of non paying employees on the plane. At that point its United's fault for fumbling and not getting X # of paying passengers to volunteer to take another flight for however much it was gonna cost 'em.
Ole Dr baw no doubt handled it like a spoiled fricking brat, but he was allowed to board and obviously never volunteered the seat that he paid for to take another flight.
Now United is going to pay dearly for the way it was handled on their end and Ole Dr Baw won't have to own up for how he acted. Just the way it is.
Ole Dr baw no doubt handled it like a spoiled fricking brat, but he was allowed to board and obviously never volunteered the seat that he paid for to take another flight.
Now United is going to pay dearly for the way it was handled on their end and Ole Dr Baw won't have to own up for how he acted. Just the way it is.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 11:53 am to shawnlsu
quote:A
Ole Dr baw no doubt handled it like a spoiled fricking brat
At least three other passengers have said Dr. Tempura was quiet, well behaved, and almost complacent until he became a battered Asian.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:09 pm to shawnlsu
quote:
There is enough blame on both sides to go around here.
A+ to ShawnLSU. He read my mind. I have learned (from afar) that stewards and pilots are considered gods of that airplane. If they ask you to move then you better move. Simple!
Does anyone know if United offered each passenger a $1K of voucher or all 4 $250 to equal $1K? It kind of starts to affect my thinking. If just $250 then what a crappy way for United to handle its crew issue emergency. If $1K to each displaced passenger then they tried harder, IMO, to make it right. And, before anyone says but he was a doctor I have learned everyone has a story...maybe others had kids or parents to care for or a job they would Ben fired from, etc etc
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:09 pm to stendulkar
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:15 pm to tiger09
quote:
Does anyone know if United offered each passenger a $1K of voucher or all 4 $250 to equal $1K? It kind of starts to affect my thinking. If just $250 then what a crappy way for United to handle its crew issue emergency. If $1K to each displaced passenger then they tried harder, IMO, to make it right. And, before anyone says but he was a doctor I have learned everyone has a story...maybe others had kids or parents to care for or a job they would Ben fired from, etc etc
But the vouchers are like in $50 increments and can only be used one per flight - at lease that's what someone said so it could easily be incorrect. So theoretically that $1,000 in vouchers just means you have to sign up for 20 more flights.
United is just horrible, I've shown up for a flight and they didn't have a pilot for the plane in the middle of the afternoon.
In contrast, I was stuck on the tarmac in the plane for about an hour and half one time on a Southwest flight because of weather - we finally get to take off and I make it back home. I get an email the next day saying "we are sorry for the unfortunate situation and delay leaving Atlanta, here is a code for a $100 voucher next time you fly".
I didn't complain to them or anything, they just fixed the situation. That is how you get a repeat customer and show you give a shite (really is going above and beyond but I definitely appreciated it and almost always fly southwest now).
This post was edited on 4/12/17 at 12:16 pm
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:19 pm to Sneaky__Sally
Some are saying the cash limit is 4x the ticket cost so around $1350, but there is NO voucher limit. Which makes way more sense than a $1300 voucher limit.
United made multiple mistakes. But I also believe the gate agent had a power trip. There's no excuse to stop at $800 or $1000 when the limit was most assurdadly more. Most those employees don't care at all about hitting those limits.
United made multiple mistakes. But I also believe the gate agent had a power trip. There's no excuse to stop at $800 or $1000 when the limit was most assurdadly more. Most those employees don't care at all about hitting those limits.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:22 pm to tiger09
The idea behind getting the volunteers is that the ones in a position to miss the flight will self-select when the dollar amount rises high enough and/or the accommodations are sufficient.
Dr Tempura had originally considered the offer until he found out the next flight wasn't until 2PM the next day, roughly 22 hours later, meaning he would miss a full day rather than take a later flight that night.
Also, the offers being made in $50-increment United vouchers rather than cash is an insult considering the limit of one per flight and expiration date within 1 year. That's not even going into other consumer horror stories involving them such as lying about securing lodging for stranded passengers and not paying vendors who accept food vouchers issued by them.
Dr Tempura had originally considered the offer until he found out the next flight wasn't until 2PM the next day, roughly 22 hours later, meaning he would miss a full day rather than take a later flight that night.
Also, the offers being made in $50-increment United vouchers rather than cash is an insult considering the limit of one per flight and expiration date within 1 year. That's not even going into other consumer horror stories involving them such as lying about securing lodging for stranded passengers and not paying vendors who accept food vouchers issued by them.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:33 pm to baldona
quote:
Some are saying the cash limit is 4x the ticket cost so around $1350, but there is NO voucher limit. Which makes way more sense than a $1300 voucher limit
If you are involuntarily denied boarding (IDB), the airline is required to compensate you 4x your segment cost or $1350, whichever is less. This payment is to be in cash or cash equivalent (i.e. check or visa gift card, etc..)
If the airline is looking for people to voluntarily deny boarding (VDB), it's between you and the airline. There are no limits other than what is set by policy. The common practice by airlines here is to start with small ($300 or so) vouchers and keep raising the offer until enough people bite. Most airlines will eventually switch to offering cash instead of vouchers, and that will usually get the last few volunteers to cross the line.
The airline is also required to try VDB before resorting to IDB, but how much of an attempt is made is up to the airline.
In this case, it appears United had a policy of only offering up to $800 in travel vouchers before switching to IDB. This policy is more restrictive than other airlines (I've been on a Delta flight offering $1100 cash as recently as 2 weeks ago).
The delay United was asking was unusually long (22 hours), and the passengers were already on the plane. This raised the actual market value of what United was asking for >>> $800 in travel vouchers and the gate agent wasn't empowered by United to fix the situation without involving the police. Chaos ensued.
Edit: I've read elsewhere that internal airline math values vouchers at 25% of their face value, meaning the gate agents weren't entitled to offer more than $200 in true value in a situation where they were asking for people to volunteer to take an unneeded vacation day and skip work.
This post was edited on 4/12/17 at 12:39 pm
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:39 pm to stendulkar
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:44 pm to BRIllini07
quote:
If you are involuntarily denied boarding (IDB), the airline is required to compensate you 4x your segment cost or $1350, whichever is less. This payment is to be in cash or cash equivalent (i.e. check or visa gift card, etc..)
Given that information, why would the procedure not be to start offering cash up to the 4x the flight cost and don't stop until you have volunteers or hit that amount? If at that time no one takes it, then you IDB someone? If they IDB someone they are owing them that much anyway right? If the company policy is anything but that, it's idiotic as they are paying it anyway.
I have a very hard time believing on a 4-5 hour drive none of 70 passengers would of taken $1200 cash. Rent a car maybe on airlines dime or on yours and you are still up $1000.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:53 pm to baldona
Probably because management is a bunch of cheap bastards who would rather sucker people into taking Monopoly money then give out cash.
The rate this story is proceeding at, I'll bet there was some kind of directive from management to save cash by requiring the gate agent to lowball the amount with the threat of involuntary debarkation if no one budged, as opposed to other airlines doing various rounds of offers until they get a taker.
The rate this story is proceeding at, I'll bet there was some kind of directive from management to save cash by requiring the gate agent to lowball the amount with the threat of involuntary debarkation if no one budged, as opposed to other airlines doing various rounds of offers until they get a taker.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 12:56 pm to baldona
quote:Is that per seat?
I have a very hard time believing on a 4-5 hour drive none of 70 passengers would of taken $1200 cash. Rent a car maybe on airlines dime or on yours and you are still up $1000.
When my family of 4 goes on vacation, I'll be praying this happens, and I can make a few grand?
IDB me, I dare you!!!
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:01 pm to baldona
quote:
Given that information, why would the procedure not be to start offering cash up to the 4x the flight cost and don't stop until you have volunteers or hit that amount? If at that time no one takes it, then you IDB someone? If they IDB someone they are owing them that much anyway right? If the company policy is anything but that, it's idiotic as they are paying it anyway. I have a very hard time believing on a 4-5 hour drive none of 70 passengers would of taken $1200 cash. Rent a car maybe on airlines dime or on yours and you are still up $1000.
Correct! And this is where United's internal policies caused this issue (and one of the things the CEO eluded to changing on his interview with Good Morning America).
It seems like United's internal policy was banking on the passengers not knowing what the DOT regulations were (and prior to yesterday, honestly this isn't a bad assumption, but it feeds into being an epically poor business decision to escalate a boarding situation to police involvement).
Now this is purely speculation, but I've also read on the Flyertalk thread that UA had a habit of telling people they were involuntarily denied boarding (or words to that effect) and then getting them to sign an agreement that was less than the regulatory amount. If that is the case, UA might be sitting on a follow-on lawsuit, as all of those customers just became aware of what the rules were yesterday.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:05 pm to shel311
Ok - to add some clarity, it depends on how much they are asking you to delay.
What the Law Says
For domestic flights: 0-1 hour no compensation, 1-2 hours 200% of ticket up to $675, more than 2 hours 400% of ticket up to $1350.
What the Law Says
For domestic flights: 0-1 hour no compensation, 1-2 hours 200% of ticket up to $675, more than 2 hours 400% of ticket up to $1350.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:16 pm to shel311
quote:
Is that per seat? When my family of 4 goes on vacation, I'll be praying this happens, and I can make a few grand? IDB me, I dare you!!!
Yeah, that's per seat. And that's how the system is supposed to work and be a win-win for everyone.
1) The airline gets to keep butts in all of its seats, and it gets to sell a last-minute seat to Mr. Moneybags who walks up to the counter and pays $8k to fly same day.
2) If not enough people miss the flight and there's a few extra bodies who want on the plane, the family of 4 can take score a few extra perks "selling" their seat back to the airline and only have to deal with being delayed a few hours (typically).
UA fricked up and forgot #2.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:21 pm to BRIllini07
The idea that United cares about another flight delay affecting 70 passengers the following day is bs, they care about their money being lost by that delay. Therefore they are working on saving money by:
Kicking off passengers for needed crew members
Is cheaper than
Other means of transportation Of said crew to Louisaville
Is cheaper than:
Delaying flight next morning.
I DGAF about the other flights. United has options to get crews around the country. They simply choose the cheapest options. Where it becomes BS is when they choose kicking off passengers instead of spending money to get them there another way. So the reason this whole situation is complete BS by United is they physically removed a guy who then had to go to the hospital all over a choice to save money.
Kicking off passengers for needed crew members
Is cheaper than
Other means of transportation Of said crew to Louisaville
Is cheaper than:
Delaying flight next morning.
I DGAF about the other flights. United has options to get crews around the country. They simply choose the cheapest options. Where it becomes BS is when they choose kicking off passengers instead of spending money to get them there another way. So the reason this whole situation is complete BS by United is they physically removed a guy who then had to go to the hospital all over a choice to save money.
This post was edited on 4/12/17 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:25 pm to stendulkar
quote:
retained a high-powered Chicago personal injury lawyer, Thomas Demetrio.
i would have tried to get an offer without an attorney first
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:26 pm to Topwater Trout
United's first offer put him in the hospital.
Posted on 4/12/17 at 1:29 pm to teke184
quote:So they gave him a place to stay, we're being way too hard on UA!!!
United's first offer put him in the hospital.
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