Started By
Message

re: This Ulvade police press conference is awful

Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:04 pm to
Posted by eitek1
Member since Jun 2011
2757 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:04 pm to
I wanted to share this just to contrast the response.

In one situation, you had a trained, heavily armed and determined individual in a hard to reach location with pretty open fields of fire to reach him. Two cops and a random guy that worked in a bookstore successfully assaulted the position using a pistol a shotgun and a borrowed rifle.

In another case, you had an untrained heavily armed person behind a door actively shooting children. You have probably 100 - 150 police on the other side of the door and a large portion of them have full gear including helmets, rifles and body armor that took no offensive action. This went on for an hour

Texas University Shooting

Officer Houston McCoy, 26, heard of the shooting on his radio. As he looked for a way into the tower, a student offered to help, saying he had a rifle at home. McCoy drove the student to his home to retrieve the rifle.

Allen Crum, a 40-year-old retired Air Force tail gunner, was a manager at the University Book Store Co-Op. Across the street he saw a 17-year-old newspaper boy being dragged and went to break up what he thought was a fight. Learning the boy had been shot, and hearing more shots, Crum rerouted street traffic out of harm's way. Unable to make his way back to the store safely, he then made his way to the tower, where he offered to help the police. Inside the tower, he accompanied Department of Public Safety Agent Dub Cowan and Austin Police Officer Jerry Day up the elevator; Cowan provided Crum with a rifle.


Around noon, Officer Ramiro "Ray" Martinez was off duty at home when he heard about the attack on the news. Having called the police station, he was instructed to go to the campus and direct traffic. Once there, he found other officers already doing that, so he went to the tower. He assumed he would find a team of officers there, but when he reached the 27th floor, he found only Cowan, Crum, and Day.




Whitman dead on the observation deck
Officers attempting to reach the tower were forced to move slowly and take cover often, but a small group of officers including Houston McCoy began making their way to the tower via underground maintenance tunnels. Officers and several civilians provided suppressive fire from the ground with small weapons and hunting rifles, forcing Whitman to stay low and fire through storm drains at the foot of the observation deck's wall. A police sharpshooter in a small plane was driven back by Whitman's return fire but continued to circle at a distance, seeking to distract Whitman and further limit his freedom to choose targets.


Martinez, Crum, and Day searched the 27th floor, where they found M. J. Gabour; Day removed him. As they started up to the stairs to the observation deck, Crum asked "Are we playing for keeps?", Martinez responded, "You're damn right we're playing for keeps", to which Crum replied, "Well you better deputize me".


Beneath the stairwell leading to the reception area, Martinez found Marguerite Lamport, Mark Gabour, Mary Gabour, and Mike Gabour. Mike Gabour gestured to the observation deck, saying: "He's out there".


Martinez reached the observation deck first. He told Crum to remain at the door. McCoy and Day reached the observation deck a few minutes later. At some point, Crum accidentally fired his rifle.


Around 1:24 pm, while Whitman was looking south for the source of the rifle shot, Martinez and McCoy rounded the northeastern corner of the observation deck. Martinez jumped out and fired in the direction of Whitman, missing with all of his revolver shots. McCoy leaped out while Martinez was firing and saw Whitman's head looking over the light ballast, McCoy fired at the top of the ballast, hitting Whitman between the eyes with several pellets, killing Whitman instantly. McCoy fired again, hitting Whitman on his left side. Martinez grabbed McCoy's shotgun, ran to Whitman's prone body, and fired a direct shotgun blast into the deceased Whitman's left arm.
Posted by eitek1
Member since Jun 2011
2757 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

I haven’t see this talked about. What was the layout? Were they really sitting in the hall planning a door breach when they could have broken/shot through a freaking window?


They could have also gone through the ceiling, don’t forget that route…
Posted by OWLFAN86
Erotic Novelist
Member since Jun 2004
194354 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:09 pm to
hearing that DPS/Rangers are planning to assume Law Enforcement responsibility for Uvalde
Posted by 50_Tiger
Arlington TX
Member since Jan 2016
42838 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:11 pm to
Is there a law down there for dereliction of duty?
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
14256 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

Martinez, Crum, and Day searched the 27th floor, where they found M. J. Gabour; Day removed him. As they started up to the stairs to the observation deck, Crum asked "Are we playing for keeps?", Martinez responded, "You're damn right we're playing for keeps", to which Crum replied, "Well you better deputize me".




Metal Riff
Posted by biglego
San Francisco
Member since Nov 2007
83005 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:13 pm to
quote:

Don’t worry, give up your guns and you’ll have the police to protect you” Meanwhile the police…..


Yup.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
119977 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:17 pm to
Jack Posobiec with a tweet almost two years to the day that aged well:
quote:

Good cops are going to walk off the job after this. The political class is pandering to the mob and trying to persecute officers for every issue in the world. Cultural revolution.
Posted by Teddy Ruxpin
Member since Oct 2006
40545 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:25 pm to
While the cop barbs in 2020 weren't good, you really think that affected the Uvalde police department? I don't.
Posted by Pedro
Geaux Hawks
Member since Jul 2008
38115 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:28 pm to
Anyone that was there and did nothing should be charged as accessories. This can’t be the expectation for law enforcement in situations like this.
Posted by Ronaldo Burgundiaz
NWA
Member since Jan 2012
6745 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

If you are the DA, you charge them
Not going to happen. Police unions finna eat.
Posted by momentoftruth87
Your mom
Member since Oct 2013
86110 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:31 pm to
DPS/Rangers/FBI

the federal agents nobody knows will fix this like everything else they touch.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
23308 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:31 pm to
quote:


There is video. There was a guy that lived across the street and he set up a camera and recorded. It will likely hit the news at some point but at 25-30 minutes in you can still hear shots. Also at that point, there are plenty of cops there.


This isn't an excuse for the cops, but of course there was shooting the whole time. The shooter was shooting at the cops to stay back, or the cops would have proceeded forward.

Shooting during the entire time does not mean he was still shooting the kids, he may have been. Again, the cops still should have gone in.

My point is simply, that after the first 5 minutes probably most of the people that died were shot. The majority of the shooting after that was likely between the shooter and the police.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
106042 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

There are reports a teacher opened the door and propped it open while getting her phone or something, and forgot to close it.


We saw incidences of this go way down (unfortunately it happens) when I worked in a school that allowed you to swipe your badge to unlock the door.

Not excusing it but a simple safety measure that could reduce that common human error.

I never propped doors open. But both schools I worked at where in high crime areas so that thought was always present for me (have locked the building down a couple of times for shooters or crime in the area close to the school).

I can at least have some sympathy in that error as I’ve seen people do it at almost every job I’ve ever worked with doors that lock from the outside.
This post was edited on 5/27/22 at 2:34 pm
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
23308 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:36 pm to
quote:

I haven’t see this talked about. What was the layout? Were they really sitting in the hall planning a door breach when they could have broken/shot through a freaking window?


I'm not exactly sure, but it appears that worst case for the police it was like this:


More easily it was like this:



Posted by UpToPar
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2008
22832 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:37 pm to
Do we know whether she propped the door open before or after shots were fired. If before, okay. But if she heard shots being fired and propped the door open so she could run to her car and get her phone, shame on her.
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
32135 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:39 pm to
quote:

As they started up to the stairs to the observation deck, Crum asked "Are we playing for keeps?", Martinez responded, "You're damn right we're playing for keeps", to which Crum replied, "Well you better deputize me".


Bad@$$.
Posted by baldona
Florida
Member since Feb 2016
23308 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:40 pm to
quote:

Do we know whether she propped the door open before or after shots were fired. If before, okay. But if she heard shots being fired and propped the door open so she could run to her car and get her phone, shame on her.


He found a door propped open. The police are saying "about 1 minute prior" it was propped open. But I'm guessing that's BS and they don't really know.

There was a small parking lot in the back of the school. At some point, and I'm sure this was not uncommon daily, a teacher propped the door open to go to her car and come back.

This isn't a prison, while I understand that's a major screw up in hindsight, that sort of thing is going to happen.

I think the real issue is that there were multiple 911 calls in the area and that exit should have been swept faster by Admins.
Posted by BrotherEsau
Member since Aug 2011
3589 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:48 pm to
Based on when this dude started shooting near/outside the school, they seem to have had plenty of time to lock down.

frick those cops.

My youngest just finished third grade. Those poor kids were enjoling their last days of school - remember how great those days were? you still didn't want to go, but you knew the work was over and it was relaxed days from here out, talking about summer, those kids were watching lilo and stitch.

It's fricking heartbreaking. Meanwhile, this a-hole is shooting kids and the cops are pulling tasers to stop hysterical parents.
Posted by BluegrassBelle
RIP Hefty Lefty - 1981-2019
Member since Nov 2010
106042 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

I think the real issue is that there were multiple 911 calls in the area and that exit should have been swept faster by Admins.


Agreed. I worked in a school with around 2,000 kids and about 14 different entry points. Whenever we had a lockdown situation (not uncommon in the area we were in) APs, Counselors, and Custodians went around to check all entry points to make sure they were locked. All of us checking had a roll key to lock if it wasn't.
Posted by TexasTiger1185
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2011
13160 posts
Posted on 5/27/22 at 3:01 pm to
(no message)
Jump to page
Page First 5 6 7 8 9 ... 11
Jump to page
first pageprev pagePage 7 of 11Next pagelast page

Back to top
logoFollow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News
Follow us on X, Facebook and Instagram to get the latest updates on LSU Football and Recruiting.

FacebookXInstagram