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re: The Red Army stumbled upon Auschwitz 80 years ago today...
Posted on 1/28/25 at 6:22 am to 62zip
Posted on 1/28/25 at 6:22 am to 62zip
Sorry to disappoint you. He died at a ripe old age. I detest what the SS did in the war, but we're all human and nobody's perfect. I hope he repented as he got older.
Posted on 1/28/25 at 7:04 am to Keltic Tiger
quote:Bombed. Demolished. Whatever.
Auschwitz was never bombed, at all.
quote:From the Auschwitz museum website.
The Russians liberated the camp & their version noted the same, the camp was intact.
quote:
As part of the overall liquidation of the evidence of crime, crematoria II and III together with their gas chambers were partially dismantled in late 1944, and blown up in January 1945. Crematorium IV was partially burned during the Sonderkommando mutiny on October 7, 1944, and later dismantled. Crematorium V functioned until the very end, and was blown up on January 26, 1945, the day before the liberation of the camp.
Posted on 1/28/25 at 7:43 am to lsudave1
quote:
Also, anyone who questions those places’ existence and purpose are ignorant. My uncle is from Northern Ireland and grew up there during the war. He told me a story last year about his cousin who was a chef and was tasked with creating a nutrition plan for the survivors of Sobibor death camp who were so emaciated that even 10 calories per day was too much for them to handle. Absolutely horrific shite. Also, I have personally met Auschwitz survivors (as I’m sure many others here have), seen the tattoos on their wrist and heard their personal testimonies. It’s so unfortunate that soon enough all of them will be gone, which is why it’s important that their stories are heard.
Lima says they're all fricking liars.
Posted on 1/28/25 at 7:52 am to WWII Collector
quote:
But it is my view that the Democratic Party is becoming more and more aligned with Nazi Politics and theory than ever before and we are in the beginning stages of that.
So the nazis imo were just a hybrid of the Soviets and Italians.
What the nazis did, the leftists also did and to worse degree and for a longer period. And the goal of the leftists was world domination. Not to just take back the old areas the nationalists wanted.
They are just being who they have always been.
This post was edited on 1/28/25 at 7:57 am
Posted on 1/28/25 at 8:03 am to TexasTiger89
quote:
They were not all getting killed. Many were slave labor plus they were moved from camp to camp. I read Geddy Lee’s autobiography and found out his parents met in a concentration camp. His father was in six different camps. He was a big, strong man so the Germans liked him as a worker.
Didn’t know they met in a camp but I knew that a song on Grace Under Pressure was based on his family’s experiences in the camp (Red Sector A).
Posted on 1/28/25 at 8:27 am to Harry Boutte
quote:
simply including the bonefide asylum seekers
What is this?
Would it be say millions of Russians escaping a dictatorship?
Guess what? We don’t want them either.
Posted on 1/28/25 at 8:28 am to Stealth Matrix
My Jewish great grandparents fled Eastern Europe after WWI. They weren’t fleeing from Nazis (mostly because they didn’t exist yet), they were fleeing from the constant tyranny from Moscow. Eastern Europe has been through a lot, especially in the 1900s, from constantly being invaded by bigger powers, and being used as cannon fodder for a superpower. They’ve been seen as nothing but peasant people and are treated as such. And people over here wonder why countries like Ukraine want to get the hell away from Russia and join alliances like NATO. It’s obvious. No one wants to be Belarus.
Posted on 1/29/25 at 9:31 pm to razor55red
quote:
Sorry to disappoint you. He died at a ripe old age. I detest what the SS did in the war, but we're all human and nobody's perfect. I hope he repented as he got older.
Yes, very disappointing. I can't help but wonder if he was one of those who murdered thousands of my people. Gunning them down, burning them alive in schools, but hey, nobody's perfect.
Oh well, I'm sure once he died at that ripe old age, he got his.
This post was edited on 1/29/25 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 1/29/25 at 10:18 pm to Hondo Blacksheep
quote:
I've never been to Auschwitz but I've been to Dachau and that was a lot to absorb.
I went there in the early 2000s. When I was there, I noticed groups of kids walking around and wondered why the hell they weren’t in school. I finally realized it was a field trip for German school kids. I’ve always really respected the way Germany didn't raze those camps the first chance they got. They haven’t run from that part of their history.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 1:16 am to 62zip
You taking pleasure in the suffering of others out of a sense of revenge doesn't speak much for your character. I know he didn't take part in mass murder, burning people in locked buildings. He fought in an infantry unit against partisans that had their own issues. He was not a concentration camp guard. In fact, most of them never had any idea of what was really going on behind those walls. That is NOT justification, but fact.
Again, I abhor what happened in the camps (there's one about 2 miles from where I sit, and I've learned in great detail what happened there). It's unimagineable. There's a Jewish Memorial in our town in memory of the prisoners who were forced to march barefoot through the snow in March or April of '45 to Dachau. They didn't want the Americans who were advancing toward the town to see the full extent of this tragedy - there's a Band of Brothers episode about this. In the next town at the train station is a train car that was used to transport prisoners like cattle. There are at least 3 Jewish cemetaries in this area. I've heard the stories - in person - of survivors of these camps, and it was heartbreaking.
There is no justification for what the Nazis did to Jews, dissidents, homosexuals, the Senti and Roma, clergy who rebelled, etc. There were many groups who suffered. It was pure evil. But on the individual level, everything is not black or white. The man in question came from a life of poverty in Romania. They were subjected to a brilliant system of propaganda, they were young and impressionable, and they were led to do terrible things.
I don't know what was happening in the mind of my friend, whether he felt guilt, had nightmares his whole life, or whatever. But what I do know is that until we learn to go forward (while remembering and learning from the past), we will be damned to repeat it all. This sense of total guilt has paralyzed German society since the war ended and there has to be a point where it stops. Please don't think that because I refuse to judge and condemn a man means that I in any way sympathize with what the fricking Nazis did to innocent people in WW II.
Again, I abhor what happened in the camps (there's one about 2 miles from where I sit, and I've learned in great detail what happened there). It's unimagineable. There's a Jewish Memorial in our town in memory of the prisoners who were forced to march barefoot through the snow in March or April of '45 to Dachau. They didn't want the Americans who were advancing toward the town to see the full extent of this tragedy - there's a Band of Brothers episode about this. In the next town at the train station is a train car that was used to transport prisoners like cattle. There are at least 3 Jewish cemetaries in this area. I've heard the stories - in person - of survivors of these camps, and it was heartbreaking.
There is no justification for what the Nazis did to Jews, dissidents, homosexuals, the Senti and Roma, clergy who rebelled, etc. There were many groups who suffered. It was pure evil. But on the individual level, everything is not black or white. The man in question came from a life of poverty in Romania. They were subjected to a brilliant system of propaganda, they were young and impressionable, and they were led to do terrible things.
I don't know what was happening in the mind of my friend, whether he felt guilt, had nightmares his whole life, or whatever. But what I do know is that until we learn to go forward (while remembering and learning from the past), we will be damned to repeat it all. This sense of total guilt has paralyzed German society since the war ended and there has to be a point where it stops. Please don't think that because I refuse to judge and condemn a man means that I in any way sympathize with what the fricking Nazis did to innocent people in WW II.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 1:18 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:13 am to razor55red
When thousands enter , no one leaves , and there is a constant smell of burning hair and flesh you don’t need a picture to figure out what was going on behind those walls/gates. People have to live with themselves and rationalize their actions as they get older.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 6:41 am to michael corleone
I never said or implied nobody knew anything about the camps. Of course the local people knew what was up. But many, many people, especially in the rural areas, had no idea of the magnitude of the Holocaust. They were only getting government propaganda for news. Believe me, there were many civilians who were against the Hitler regime, but kept quiet in order to protect themselves and their families. There were also many courageous Germans who tried to fight the regime. Look up Sophie Scholl and the White Rose, for example. She (and most of her comrades) was beheaded for printing and distributing anti Nazi fliers.
Look, I'm not making excuses for anyone, and every guilty person deserved every bit of punishment for whatever they did. More war criminals were hanged in my town than in Nuremberg, and every one of them deserved it. Another story: my neighbor back in the day was around 16 when the war was coming to a close. An American bomber was shot down in a field on the outskirts of town; he happened to be near and ran to the bomber and pulled out the injured crew members. What happened next? The local militia shot him. He was lucky not to die saving the lives of Americans.
Look, I'm not making excuses for anyone, and every guilty person deserved every bit of punishment for whatever they did. More war criminals were hanged in my town than in Nuremberg, and every one of them deserved it. Another story: my neighbor back in the day was around 16 when the war was coming to a close. An American bomber was shot down in a field on the outskirts of town; he happened to be near and ran to the bomber and pulled out the injured crew members. What happened next? The local militia shot him. He was lucky not to die saving the lives of Americans.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 8:54 am to michael corleone
They didn’t have the crematoria to burn that many bodies, so logically you need to consider the contra
Posted on 1/30/25 at 9:38 am to dgnx6
quote:
What the nazis did, the leftists also did
The Nazis were leftists. The National Socialist German Workers' Party. The Eastern Front was more like two mobsters fighting over turf in Chicago than two radically opposed ideologies.
One of the greatest victories the cultural Marxists have won in our society in the last 80 years is successfully branding Nazism as far right politically.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 9:46 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
One of the greatest victories the cultural Marxists have won in our society in the last 80 years is successfully branding Nazism as far right politically.
The Nazis were far right politically. Both political extremes share a lot of common ground.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:12 am to SoFla Tideroller
From a western perspective, Hitler was far right. That’s certainly more accurate than calling it left wing - Fascism was a direct response to Communism.
I don’t think the left/right really applies though. Because that’s a relative measurement of how liberal you are. And while Communism traces its roots to Liberalism, Fascism rejected core Liberal ideas. Liberalism is atomizing, whereas the Fascists elevated the people/nation above the individual.
I don’t think the left/right really applies though. Because that’s a relative measurement of how liberal you are. And while Communism traces its roots to Liberalism, Fascism rejected core Liberal ideas. Liberalism is atomizing, whereas the Fascists elevated the people/nation above the individual.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:20 am to Haplochrom
quote:
I do wonder why any group hell bent on extinction of a race would take the time to tattoo them or spend the money to cut their hair. Why give them prison uniforms? Why provide them with razors for shaving?
To add to what others have said, that honestly wasn't the goal either early on. They really were work camps and the thought was the Germans could at least get something out of them. They didn't turn into true extermination camps until later into the war, but even then, the labor was valuable to the war effort, so if you could work, you were made to work.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:25 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
From a western perspective, Hitler was far right. That’s certainly more accurate than calling it left wing - Fascism
Not really.
quote:
was a direct response to Communism.
Doesn't make it Right Wing. Fascism and Communism are both branches off of Socialism with competing ideals on things work. Gentile got a lot of his inspiration from Marx and Nietzsche. He also was in favor of creating an autarkic state, which is basically what Hitler used.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 10:48 am
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:35 am to TigerHornII
quote:
There was no one to speak for the victims in the USSR, and many who could have spoken for Japan's victims in the East would be among the millions silenced by Mao.
I have read that the Japanese killed well over 35 million Chinese over their decade occupation.
It is estimated that the Russians lost 27 million during WWII.
Then that evil POS Mao had the sickening 'Great Leap Forward' post WWII where an estimated 38 million Chinese were cruelly starved to death.
Stalin was just as evil. The actual number of people he had murdered is unknown, estimates are around 20 million.
He oversaw the cruel starvation of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians.
Posted on 1/30/25 at 10:39 am to IAmNERD
quote:
Wasn't Dachau full of alleged commies, captured by the Germans, at first?
Among others, but yes that was a huge portion of theirs early on. I've been there and their museum section did a great walkthrough of the total timeline and how not only it, but the others transitioned from how they started out to what they became by the end of the war and how the focus on the population shifted throughout.
It is a wild one to visit because it is just right in the middle of this cozy little town. Completely unassuming.
This post was edited on 1/30/25 at 10:42 am
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