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re: The New Hubble Telescope
Posted on 7/18/22 at 2:56 am to UndercoverBryologist
Posted on 7/18/22 at 2:56 am to UndercoverBryologist
quote:
At its most basics, by being able to detect galaxies that are extremely red-shifted, we see the universe as it appeared just a few million years after the Big Bang. Knowing the early state of the universe gives us a better understanding of the cosmological model built upon General Relativity.
Theoretically, we could see where the model starts to break down...something we know will happen as it gets closer and closer to 13.7 billion years ago...and we should be able to understand the first rudiments of what we’ll need to do in order to update our model beyond the limits of General Relativity.
This is only true if the speed of light is the same for one way travel as it is for round trip travel. Something we haven’t been able to prove, and possibly something that is impossible to prove.
As a country we blow an enormous amount of money on things, in the scheme of things this is nothing. We get the challenge of doing something that was impossible, which requires mankind to learn new technology that might be applicable in other areas, and we are curious species, and this helps scratch that itch. Plus, we get the entertainment value of seeing the pictures and the hope to see something new.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 4:27 am to dovehunter
OP would find it perfectly justified if it can be used to target space missiles. Just consider that its secondary function
Posted on 7/18/22 at 4:39 am to dovehunter
Trying to figure out why gravity creates spheres in nearly all celestial bodies across solar systems, galaxies and universe...
Yet, Earth is flat.
F'n weird. Ask Flatties on this site to explain. I cannot.
Yet, Earth is flat.
F'n weird. Ask Flatties on this site to explain. I cannot.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 5:03 am to dovehunter
quote:Perhaps you mean the James Webb Space Telescope?
The New Hubble Telescope
Posted on 7/18/22 at 5:15 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
to the Big Bang

Posted on 7/18/22 at 6:39 am to hubertcumberdale
If you watch “everything and nothing” on Amazon Prime it explains (very easily) how measuring all of this helps us understand the origins of our universe. The film also gives you the history of how we began to measure such things, which helps to understand where we are today & what we’re still looking for.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 7:42 am to hubertcumberdale
quote:
I’m asking what is the point of studying these wavelengths that were previously undetected by Hubble,
There were space babes just beyond the sight of Hubble. Hopefully this will let us see them.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:48 am to EA6B
Thanks. I wasn’t trying to be obtuse here. I was genuinely interested.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:53 am to Korkstand
Thanks for sharing this. It was just an honest question. A lot if this seems so far out there but I get it for pure research. I just wondered if the mission has generated any practical value. I guess it has.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 10:37 am to dovehunter
Astrophysicists are attempting to get the closest view of the Big Bang.
I was hoping to get some views of alien spaceships so that we could get some ideas on inventing our own warp drive so that we could get off this crazy planet.
In reality I think GM is trying to spy on alien worlds to see what kind of cars they are driving because they are out of fresh ideas.
I was hoping to get some views of alien spaceships so that we could get some ideas on inventing our own warp drive so that we could get off this crazy planet.
In reality I think GM is trying to spy on alien worlds to see what kind of cars they are driving because they are out of fresh ideas.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 10:56 am to cssamerican
quote:
This is only true if the speed of light is the same for one way travel as it is for round trip travel. Something we haven’t been able to prove, and possibly something that is impossible to prove.
What in the frick are you talking about lol
Posted on 7/18/22 at 4:20 pm to Not Cooper
quote:
What in the frick are you talking about lol
Somebody didn’t pay attention in Physics class

Why No One Has Measured The Speed Of Light
This post was edited on 7/18/22 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 7/18/22 at 4:41 pm to Not Cooper
quote:
What in the frick are you talking about lol
There is no way to measure the speed of light in a single direction that isn't dependent on how you synchronize two clocks and how you compare the two clocks. Depending on how you establish the synchronization and compare the clocks, you can measure different one way speeds of light from experiment setup to experiment setup and even speeds that different observers of the same experimental setup will disagree on.
The best we can do without introducing the issue of multiple clocks is to use a single clock to measure the time it takes light to travel from the emitter, to some other place, then back to the detector, all as measured by the single clock.
The upshot is that we know very well what the round trip speed of light is, but the one way speed of light is currently undefined and may well depend intimately on the experimental setup with the universe always conspiring to make the round trip time constant no matter what the one way speed measured is.
Einstein recognized this and, by convention, said that the one way speed of light is equal to the round trip speed. However, this is just an arbitrary definition of the one way velocity used in the formulation Einstein published and the actual one way speed may well be unknowable or even not real.
After all, the speed of light isn't special because it's light. It's special because it's the speed of causality in the universe. Talking about a one way speed might not really mean anything since causality just requires a one way flow of information from casual event to caused event. That interaction can happen at any speed and neither the casual event or the caused event can ever know how fast the interaction happened unless the caused event then communicates back to the causal event.
It's only when you try to share information two ways that causality paradoxes can occur, and that's where the well measured two way speed of light (causality) comes in. That two way interaction has a maximum speed that makes sure before and after remain in their proper order.
To illustrate this, let's say that you and I measure the two way speed of light and position ourselves ten light minutes apart, per that two way speed. Let's also say that I'm going to send you a message that says the time on my clock, starting at 0. When you get my message, you immediately send me a message saying YOUR time, again starting at 0. Every time we receive a message, we send our new time out.
Okay, let's assume that light moves the same velocity both ways. I send you "0 minutes". Ten minutes later, you get the message and you send me "0 minutes". Your message gets to me after 10 minutes, so there's been a 20 minute trip and I send you "20 minutes". You get my second message after ten more minutes and send me "20 minutes" and so on.
Now, let's do the same experiment, measure the same round trip speed of light, move the same distance apart, and follow the same rules about the messages we send. The only difference is that when I send you a message, it moves infinitely fast, but your return message only moves half the speed of light. Remember, we agree on the round trip speed that we measured together. I send you "0 minutes". You get the message instantaneously and send me "0 minutes". Now, your message only moves half the speed of light, so when I get your response, 20 minutes have passed, so I send you "20 minutes" and you, again, instantaneously get my message and send back "20 minutes".
In both circumstances, the one way speed of light is different, but the round trip speed is the same and there is absolutely no way for us to know the difference because in the process of us comparing our clocks, the round trip speed of light that we measured and agreed on prevents us from being able to see anything other than the two way speed.
Causality/relativity is wild.
This post was edited on 7/18/22 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 7/18/22 at 8:05 pm to TigerstuckinMS
So perhaps we can't measure the one-way speed precisely, but if the difference was drastic (say c/2 one way and instantaneous the other) wouldn't the universe look different in one direction than the other? Wouldn't a lot more light be reaching us from the instantaneous direction and we'd see many more galaxies?
Posted on 7/18/22 at 8:59 pm to Korkstand
quote:No, it would not be perceivable. You would not know if the star you are looking at is what is there at this exact moment or if it was the star that was there 10 billion years ago.
wouldn't the universe look different in one direction than the other?
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:02 pm to CSinLC
Like the conehead running around with the spinning wire cage catching bugs. I kid you not. Someone at NASA came up with the bright idea to measure the negative impact of bugs splattering on the windshields and bodies of jetliners. You know the change in aerodynamics caused by bugs. But first, they had to count the number of bugs per something. Thus the spinning cage.
I laughed as I watched a NASA video of that loony toon running around with a spinning wire cage catching bugs. My tax dollars at work.
Does NASA waste taxpayer dollars? You bet.

I laughed as I watched a NASA video of that loony toon running around with a spinning wire cage catching bugs. My tax dollars at work.
Does NASA waste taxpayer dollars? You bet.

This post was edited on 7/19/22 at 11:24 am
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:28 pm to Korkstand
quote:
wouldn't the universe look different in one direction than the other?
Nope. It's still a relativistic universe and everything in relativity is tied to c, but not a specific value of c. If the speed of light varies with direction, then the other effects of things like time dilation and Lorentz contraction exactly balance out the change in c and the universe would appear the same as it would if c were the same in every direction.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:29 pm to cssamerican
quote:But if light comes from one direction instantaneously, we should be able to see *all* the galaxies in that direction, right? And in the other direction where light travels toward us at c/2, we should see far fewer galaxies because the furthest ones are moving away from us faster than c/2.
No, it would not be perceivable. You would not know if the star you are looking at is what is there at this exact moment or if it was the star that was there 10 billion years ago.
Posted on 7/18/22 at 9:39 pm to TigerstuckinMS
quote:I can see it if there is a slight difference, but I'm thinking of the special case of c/2 one way and instantaneous the other. And I guess c in every other direction would be proportional to the cosine maybe?
Nope. It's still a relativistic universe and everything in relativity is tied to c, but not a specific value of c. If the speed of light varies with direction, then the other effects of things like time dilation and Lorentz contraction exactly balance out the change in c and the universe would appear the same as it would if c were the same in every direction.
Anyway, in the exact direction of instantaneous light, I would think there would be either a very bright spot in the case of uniform expansion, or a very dark spot in the case where universal expansion is also directional.
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