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Started By
Message
re: The impending DEF shortage and why it's important
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:31 pm to lsufan1971
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:31 pm to lsufan1971
quote:
It's very hard to get a delete done any longer. FedGov cracked down on companies that did it. If you know how to do it you can do it yourself but its going to void your warranty and you won't be able to get a inspection sticker.
We use Chevy diesels in our fleet. Can't do a delete after 2012 model.
When we find DEF, we buy as much as we can get. We've shopped for front end loaders with pre-def engines, but we couldn't get home office to drop $200k on a refurbished 20 year old loader last year. I can't imagine what a machine like that will go for now.
You wanna blow your mind, get on ebay and search for a 7.3 diesel f-series or excursion.
It's gonna be bad if we can't get def. I'm not going to say what product our plant produces because I'm not trying to dox myself, but everybody on this board and everyone they know uses it. We produce most of the world's supply, and the rest is produced by an enemy to this country.
1
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:34 pm to Ajo Devil
quote:
I bet if you go down to Mexico or Guatemala, you'll find some Jose that has found a way to circumvent this problem. We just need to do that.
People delete it here as well. It's just difficult for fleets that have to operate "by the book" or risk being hit with massive EPA fines.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:36 pm to zbra24
quote:
Your original post stating that DEF does absolutely nothing is not true. DEF actually reduces the amount of NOX released into the atmosphere.
quote:
2 NOX - a gas emited from the exhaust. DEF is sprayed into the exhaust system to reduce NOX emissions.
So it does nothing worthwhile is what you’re saying.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:37 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
When I say rebuild, I mean they’ll take an old 988 loader, have us tear it down to the bare frame and rebuild it completely.
Ah, shite. Sorry to dog on your company, baw.
To be fair, I love our Cat rep.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:39 pm to wadewilson
quote:
When we find DEF, we buy as much as we can get. We've shopped for front end loaders with pre-def engines, but we couldn't get home office to drop $200k on a refurbished 20 year old loader last year. I can't imagine what a machine like that will go for now.
Have you talked to your Cat PSSR about a “Certified Machine Rebuild”? That might be an option worth talking to the home office about. Basically it’s a complete machine rebuild from the frame up. All components, wiring harnesses, hyd. Hoses, cab, everything is rebuilt and updated. It’s even painted and gets new decals. It looks as new as the day it was delivered. And essentially it is new. They even issue a new serial number. When it’s over you’ve spent roughly 60% the cost of a new machine and you have new machine powertrain/hydraulic/electrical warranty.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:42 pm to Popths
quote:
There is no shortage. Urea is made in the United States. One plant is in Waggaman. Cornerstone Chemical.
The largest nitrogen complex in the world is about 60 miles upriver. They also make DEF.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:44 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
it loses its potency. It needs to be kept out of the sun and it needs to be kept cool.
That's a mild assessment. The shite crystallizes and fouls up anything it comes in contact with.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:46 pm to Darth_Vader
The supply chain interruption will be very long.
Dems need to go.
Dems need to go.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:48 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
That ignores the reduced emissions as well.
frick the reduced emissions. They don't improve the performance. That's what he's saying.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:49 pm to Darth_Vader
We have air compressors and generators running 24/7 in my unit at the plant that require DEF. If you look at all the plants and industries that use diesels it’s mind boggling.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:49 pm to wadewilson
quote:
That's a mild assessment. The shite crystallizes and fouls up anything it comes in contact with.
I’m in the undercarriage and GET product group so I (thankfully) don’t have to deal with DEF issues too much. I’d forgot about the crystallizing problems from storing it in the sun for any amount of time.
I’ve also heard that if you let the emissions system run out of DEF, what little fluid is left in the lines will crystallize and clog up the whole system.
This post was edited on 6/20/22 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:50 pm to Darth_Vader
No one will answer my question: when can I profit from the 50 gallon containers of piss i got out back?
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:52 pm to LSUnation78
If you can get the quality to 32.5% urea, about $12 a gallon will move fast.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:52 pm to supadave3
quote:
frick the reduced emissions. They don't improve the performance. That's what he's saying.
Yep. That’s exactly what I was saying. It does absolutely nothing for performance. And any slight increase in fuel efficiency is canceled out from the added expense of the system itself. It’s literally useless. In fact it’s worse than useless because it does more harm and costs more money than it saves.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:52 pm to LSUnation78
quote:
when can I profit from the 50 gallon containers of piss i got out back?
Are you a hot girl? If so I’m sure some freak will buy it off you
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:54 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I’ll let you testify, you know and work with DEF machines and/or trucks. You tell me. Is having these Tier-4 emissions systems and their 5% increase in fuel efficiency worth the added expense of (1) DEF (2) maintenance (3) repairs and (4) downtime? Or does factors 1-4 completely erase that 5% fuel efficiency?
I'm not a mechanic, I just find out how much it costs us everytime something breaks. Earlier in the year I did an audit on how much we've dropped on our front end loaders over a 3 year period. I can tell you that if you added up just the costs of def-related parts, service calls, and rental fees in that time, we could have bought a refurbed loader, and we need something comparable to a 924, minimum.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:55 pm to MikeD
Our company still gets T2 equipment from our manufacturer because technically as long as your 12 nautical miles offshore you don't have need a T4 engine. So we sell T2's to land based companies and it's on them if they get caught but it will never happen.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:56 pm to notiger1997
quote:
What did the pro war folks have to do with making Russia start a fricking war?
They stopped the pipeline to Germany and threatened to end Russian independence
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:59 pm to wadewilson
If you're going to have emissions controls at all, having a full blown tier 4 SCR/DPF system is the way to go. You don't need any NOx controls in cylinder because the aftertreatment will handle all of it. So no or extremely little EGR. ULSD handles the SOx emissions because there's no Sulphur in the fuel.
Tier 2 and tier 3 electronic engines are generally garbage. They burn too much fuel.
Tier 2 and tier 3 electronic engines are generally garbage. They burn too much fuel.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:59 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Have you talked to your Cat PSSR about a “Certified Machine Rebuild”? That might be an option worth talking to the home office about. Basically it’s a complete machine rebuild from the frame up. All components, wiring harnesses, hyd. Hoses, cab, everything is rebuilt and updated. It’s even painted and gets new decals. It looks as new as the day it was delivered. And essentially it is new. They even issue a new serial number. When it’s over you’ve spent roughly 60% the cost of a new machine and you have new machine powertrain/hydraulic/electrical warranty.
This is exactly what we did, only through Volvo.
Don't get me started on those frickers.
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