re: The bloodiest battle in human history ended 83 years ago today...

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People who say this don't understand Hitler. His stated goal since the 1920s had been to conquer lands to the east of Germany for living space for the German people. His whole reason for existing as a political entity was to invade the Soviet Union. That's all he cared about.

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Oh I'm not saying he didn't have intentions to conquer land to the east. He certainly, undoubtedly, did. He just got impatient and began to divide resources when that is a highly risky and usually devastating tactical move.

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People who say this don't understand Hitler. His stated goal since the 1920s had been to conquer lands to the east of Germany for living space for the German people. His whole reason for existing as a political entity was to invade the Soviet Union. That's all he cared about.

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I guess I never spent a lot of time thinking about his reasoning, but what was the reason for going West first and conquering instead of going East, if that's "all he cared about"

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I guess I never spent a lot of time thinking about his reasoning

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He wrote a book about it...

"We take up where we broke off six hundred years ago. We stop the endless movement towards the south and west of Europe, and turn our gaze towards the lands of the east. At long last we put a stop to the colonial and commercial policy of pre-war days and pass over to the territorial policy of the future. But when we speak of new territory in Europe today we must think principally of Russia and her border vassal states. Destiny itself seems to wish to point out the way to us here... This colossal Empire in the east is ripe for dissolution, and the end of the Jewish domination in Russia will also be the end of Russia as a state."

- A. Hitler, Mein Kampf, 1925

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what was the reason for going West first and conquering instead of going East, if that's "all he cared about"

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He didn't want to fight on two fronts simultaneously.

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I guess I never spent a lot of time thinking about his reasoning, but what was the reason for going West first and conquering instead of going East, if that's "all he cared about"

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Hitler had made a non-aggression pact with Stalin, to provide for the division of lands lying between Germany and Russia, the objective being to keep Stalin pacified until he was ready. His army entered Austria bloodlessly the night before an Austrian national referendum on whether to join Germany, fearing the outcome of the vote might be unfavorable. He proceeded on to Czechoslovakia, with no real consequences. This emboldened him to attack Poland in 1939, but Britain and France had a treaty with Poland that required them to declare war on Germany, thus causing Hitler to turn to the West to deal with France and Britain. His timeline for attacking Russia was also delayed by the necessity of helping the Italians in the Balkans and Africa.

He made numerous tactical and judgmental errors. Stalingrad had little logistical value. He would have been better served to throw his might at Moscow and sooner in the year, rather than splitting up his forces into multiple objectives in the manner he did. Had too much belief in the invincible quality of his armies.

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Enemy at the Gates is a phenomenal movie

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could have done without the stupid wedged in love story, but yeah - great movie

I'm listening to BFA right now and plan on listening to GotO next. Just finished KoK's for the 4th time.

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Bingo. He had the Soviet Union sitting on their hands and could have focused his forces and assets to the western front... therefore being much more formidable to the allies and making an already difficult war a more difficult one. But that ego bubble popped and he began to break the most basic tenets of warfare.

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It wasn’t ego bubble. The NAZI’s viewed the Slavs as sub humans when viewed through the lens of racial superiority. Nazi germany couldn’t have a Slavic power just sitting on their border. There was always going to be war between Germany and Russia.

Please indulge my tangent

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Sun Tzu.

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I recently read that “The Art of War” was not written for generals and military minds like many people believe, but rather for spoiled, incompetent, nepobabies of the aristocracy that had been given command positions over actual troops and militaries.

Kinda makes why the consultant class of Ivy League MBA’s love his writings so much.

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He would have been better served to throw his might at Moscow and sooner in the year, rather than splitting up his forces into multiple objectives in the manner he did. Had too much belief in the invincible quality of his armies.

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Any offensive he made in 1942 was doomed to failure regardless of where it hit. The Germans had pretty much killed whatever chance they had to militarily win the war when they failed to take Moscow in December 1941. For the whole of Operation Barbarossa, the Wehrmacht suffered over one million casualties. Their panzer divisions had been wrecked, with some down to fewer than 20 tanks from an initial strength of 150. They didn't have enough strength to launch another attack on Moscow, as that was the most heavily defended part of the line and the point where Stavka expected the Germans to try to hit again.

So Hitler decided to go for the oil fields of southern Russia. Okay. Fine. But let's say you manage to capture the oil fields intact (which the Russians weren't going to let happen). How are you going to transport that oil out of the region, refine it, and distribute it to your units? How are you going to protect it from Allied bombing raids coming from Iraq and Iran? How are you going to hold off the eventual Russian counterattack?

There was no way for Fall Blau to have succeeded. It was a fool's errand.