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1
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:34 pm to The Egg
quote:what’s the other part?
Part of the reason why people should leave the church
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:37 pm to deltaland
quote:Interesting point.
My reasoning is this: if you freeze an embryos it can be used to create a life. If you freeze a human being they die. You cannot bring them back. So frozen embryos are not yet a human being
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:37 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Catholics are against IVF as well.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:38 pm to ThePoo
A bunch of ignorance and fallacies in this thread.
Huh? Where do you get this from? They typically use mom's egg and dad's sperm to create the embryos
Maybe in some states but not in LA. In LA all viable embryos have to be preserved for future life. Unfortunately, not all embryos survive the freeze thaw cycle. However, this is part of nature and not any different than nature where not all embryos successfully implant in the uterus and not all embryos that make it to the uterus survive gestation. These are all miscarriages whether it happens in the body or in a lab its still part of God's plan.
Additionally, few embryos make it to the freeze cycle. In our case 25% of the harvested eggs were viable embryos on Day 5 which is the day they perform implantation.
We lost an embryo during implantation and the thaw cycle and mourned their loss as any parent would mourn a miscarriage.
Maybe . . . but in our case the IVF pregnancy "rebooted" my wife's system which led to naturally occurring pregnancies. This holds true for several couples that we know that also required IVF for their first pregnancy.
It is true that when you undergo the IVF process that you open up pandora's box of morality but not necessarily in the manner you described.
Before undergoing the procedure you had to fill out paperwork stating who had custody of frozen embryos in various life scenarios.
quote:
They deny the child it's natural father and mother, often times replacing them with same sex parents (which is another reason for the religious contempt for the practice)
Huh? Where do you get this from? They typically use mom's egg and dad's sperm to create the embryos
quote:
The unwanted/needed embryos are often destroyed or used for research. This is the case regardless if some are not. Plus you are talking about the storage of potentially millions of human lives for commoditization
Maybe in some states but not in LA. In LA all viable embryos have to be preserved for future life. Unfortunately, not all embryos survive the freeze thaw cycle. However, this is part of nature and not any different than nature where not all embryos successfully implant in the uterus and not all embryos that make it to the uterus survive gestation. These are all miscarriages whether it happens in the body or in a lab its still part of God's plan.
Additionally, few embryos make it to the freeze cycle. In our case 25% of the harvested eggs were viable embryos on Day 5 which is the day they perform implantation.
We lost an embryo during implantation and the thaw cycle and mourned their loss as any parent would mourn a miscarriage.
quote:
however unfortunate would not change the the nature of the situation of IVF.
Maybe . . . but in our case the IVF pregnancy "rebooted" my wife's system which led to naturally occurring pregnancies. This holds true for several couples that we know that also required IVF for their first pregnancy.
quote:
The moral argument on IVF is a bit more ambiguous
It is true that when you undergo the IVF process that you open up pandora's box of morality but not necessarily in the manner you described.
Before undergoing the procedure you had to fill out paperwork stating who had custody of frozen embryos in various life scenarios.
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 7:00 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:44 pm to TrigSwig
quote:
And this is all pertaining to a political play in an election year. A political play 100%.
If it’s a political play it seems like a terrible idea considering that social conservatives are split on this topic.
Doesn’t sound like something you’d win an election on.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:44 pm to armytiger96
Does the Bible confer authority to the various denominations to establish a secondary listing of what is or is not a sin?
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:50 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
Much like drink Baptist will do IVF when no one is looking
You mean like Catholics and every conceivable sin? Just step behind the curtain into the phone booth and tell the perv in the flowing gown about it. Then go do it again.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:53 pm to Jim Rockford
Bet they are sending me straight to hell for disposing of my unused embryos too.
Oh well.
Oh well.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:54 pm to Rip Torner
quote:
Unless you are Jewish those are ridiculous arguments
Oy vey!
Yeshua was a Hebrew, baw.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:56 pm to Jim Rockford
IVF raises some moral questions, but surrogacy seems like the issue most ripe for Christians to concern ourselves with.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:57 pm to jglass3lsu
quote:
Does the Bible confer authority to the various denominations to establish a secondary listing of what is or is not a sin?
Not sure but I find it interesting that they waited almost 50 years to decide it was a sin. Seems this topic and decision would have covered in 1978 when the first IVF baby was born.
I personally tend to lose respect for religious authority when they alter their interpretations of God's teachings based on current political climates.
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 10:15 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:57 pm to TBoy
Imagine that being your motivation to vote politically when you can’t afford to live. That is a special kind of stupid
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:58 pm to North Dallas Tiger
quote:if God created the world in 7 days, then IVF was included when he created humans on the 6th day. He gave humans the ability to create happiness. IVF is God's creation
Where in our Father God's creation (Mother Nature) do you see IVF?
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:59 pm to Philzilla2k
And your point is what?
Posted on 6/12/24 at 6:59 pm to wutangfinancial
quote:
they absolutely want their beliefs to dictate laws But it’s okay for progressives to dictate their morality, right?
This is the only debate we should ever have. Pluralism is a myth.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 7:00 pm to armytiger96
My issue is more so is that the legalization of commercialized surrogacy creates the conditions necessary for all of those potential moral conundrums. I am not trying to equate all instances of IVF to each other, and fully acknowledge that certainly not all of those moral pitfalls apply to many if not most instances of IVF. But they all exist, and are more readily available and more common through legal commercial surrogacy. I do not think commercial surrogacy is capable of existing separate from these issues.
This post was edited on 6/12/24 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 6/12/24 at 7:01 pm to TigerDeacon
quote:
I personally see is as man striving forward as God intended. Plus the people that have the money to afford the procedure are the ones that you want to procreate.
Exactly. I know plenty of people that had to go this route.
Meanwhile the chick with 3 baby daddies and in food stamps gets pregnant every time she has sex.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 7:03 pm to dgnx6
quote:
Exactly. I know plenty of people that had to go this route. Meanwhile the chick with 3 baby daddies and in food stamps gets pregnant every time she has sex.
Opening scene of idiocracy.
Posted on 6/12/24 at 7:04 pm to DJ3K
Ability does not dictate morality. Man has the ability to murder, that does not make it morally right. That would mean everything man is capable of doing is morally right because we were created with the ability. This is where free will comes into play
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