- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: South Carolina likely to remain one of only two states without hate crime laws
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:15 am to SallysHuman
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:15 am to SallysHuman
quote:Because I was giving examples of crimes where motive matters to explain why motive matters in hate crimes.
I notice in your list, race nor other protected characteristics were included.
Wonder why.
One does not generally give the original as an example to explain the original.
It like using the word as the definition of the word.
1
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:16 am to SallysHuman
Hate crime law proponents live in a fantasy world where a) the laws are applied evenly and b) there is some broader social impact and hate crime enhancements help to curb it.
But in reality, because a) is false, the actual potential for b) is greatly reduced (as seen with the rash of anti-Jewish stuff in recent years.
Society dictating 1 guy getting killed in part due to a grudging dislike for (enter race or ethnicity) is morally and culturally worse than 10 guys getting killed by thugs for their iPhone, is, obviously, unhealthy and paying no dividends.
But in reality, because a) is false, the actual potential for b) is greatly reduced (as seen with the rash of anti-Jewish stuff in recent years.
Society dictating 1 guy getting killed in part due to a grudging dislike for (enter race or ethnicity) is morally and culturally worse than 10 guys getting killed by thugs for their iPhone, is, obviously, unhealthy and paying no dividends.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:20 am to Salviati
quote:
Because I was giving examples of crimes where motive matters to explain why motive matters in hate crimes.
But you failed to connect the dots.
Almost all victims are selected.. on one criterion or another. Any one criterion should not weigh more than any other.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:23 am to SallysHuman
Salviati = SFP?
same exact condescending arguing style
same exact condescending arguing style
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:24 am to Salviati
quote:
The element of the crime does not depend on the characteristics of the victim. The element of the crime depends on whether the assailant intentionally selected the victim based on a characteristic.
Except they aren't.
For example:
quote:
JACKSON, Miss. — Family members say a West Point man is in a Tupelo hospital after he and another man were attacked in a Huddle House parking lot by up to 20 people.
Ralph Weems, a 32-year-old Marine and Iraq war veteran, was in fair condition Monday, according to officials at North Mississippi Medical Center.
Monday evening, police arrested 22-year-old Courtez McMillian of Okolona. He is being held in the Clay County Detention Center and will be charged with aggravated assault.
Brinkley said other arrests are also pending, and that most, if not all of the assailants appear to come from Monroe County. Detectives are reviewing video footage of the incident.
The Associated Press reports that Weems went to a Waffle House early Saturday. His friend David Knighten, an Air Force veteran of the Afghanistan war who was with him, told reporters that a man told him politely outside the restaurant that it wasn't a safe place for whites, because people were upset by the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.
Knighten said when he entered the restaurant, Weems was arguing with some people inside. The argument brought police, and Knighten and Weems left. On their way to Weems' house, they stopped at a Huddle House with an empty parking lot, according to the AP.
The pair was followed to Huddle House by what Knighten said was around 20 people. Witnesses told police that the group was made up of black men, but couldn't identify any of them. One witness did provide a vehicle description and police said they are working on identifying the owner.
Knighten told reporters he was trying to defuse the situation. When a security guard told everyone to leave, Knighten said he was blocked from getting to Weems, who was on the ground being kicked by a group of people. Knighten said others then attacked him.
"I do remember racial slurs being yelled from the crowd," he told the AP.
Knighten couldn't be reached for comment Monday, but he posted on Facebook Saturday.
"All my injuries were minor fractures and lacerations. I just wish I could have reached him sooner. Please keep your thoughts and prayers on Ralph," he wrote.
Brinkley, (black West Point Police Chief) who could not be reached for comment Monday, said in the release that the attack right now is an aggravated assault investigation, and that the cause is not yet determined.
This does not appear to be a hate crime," he said. "It's very early in this investigation but thus far the evidence and statements suggest that a verbal altercation turned physical and somebody got hurt."
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:24 am to Salviati
Why did you disappear from the festival thread?
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:25 am to Salviati
Those are all legit scenarios.
But to me this is about using some arbitrary feelings when the act itself should be enough to demand justice. If you kill a gay, Christian cop because he started mowing at 6 on Sunday that should be enough to get you life. You killed someone, none of that other stuff matters.
But to me this is about using some arbitrary feelings when the act itself should be enough to demand justice. If you kill a gay, Christian cop because he started mowing at 6 on Sunday that should be enough to get you life. You killed someone, none of that other stuff matters.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:26 am to SallysHuman
Leaning this hard into “hate crimes” being somehow more damaging just pushes people to think in teams. It nudges everything toward us vs. them, where people stop being individuals and start being stand-ins for whatever group they belong to. And that’s the exact kind of thinking that leads to collective blame and retaliation in the first place.
So the real question is this:
Are we trying to punish the act itself, or are we trying to get inside someone’s head, rank their motives, and decide which victims matter more based on identity? (you and I know the answer to this question)
Because once you start judging crimes based on who the victim is instead of what actually happened, you’re not making anything more fair. You’re just making it more subjective.
And subjective justice tends to age about as well as milk in August.
So the real question is this:
Are we trying to punish the act itself, or are we trying to get inside someone’s head, rank their motives, and decide which victims matter more based on identity? (you and I know the answer to this question)
Because once you start judging crimes based on who the victim is instead of what actually happened, you’re not making anything more fair. You’re just making it more subjective.
And subjective justice tends to age about as well as milk in August.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:27 am to Sam Quint
could be.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:27 am to Klark Kent
quote:
Leaning this hard into “hate crimes” being somehow more damaging just pushes people to think in teams. It nudges everything toward us vs. them, where people stop being individuals and start being stand-ins for whatever group they belong to. And that’s the exact kind of thinking that leads to collective blame and retaliation in the first place.
This is perfect. All of it.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:28 am to SallysHuman
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:30 am to Sam Quint
quote:
Salviati = SFP?
No. Salviati is Just Me.
I'm sure someone will tell you why he was originally banned if you don't already know.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:35 am to SallysHuman
quote:In most common law jurisdictions:
Almost all victims are selected.. on one criterion or another. Any one criterion should not weigh more than any other.
If you kill Joe because he was shooting at you, that's probably self defense.
If you kill Joe in a car accident, that's probably manslaughter.
If you kill Joe because he just fricked your wife, that's probable second-degree murder.
If you kill Joe because he's Jewish, that's probably murder and a hate crime.
If you kill Joe after a week of planning, that's probably first-degree murder.
Joe is still dead. But you're only going to the chair for first-degree murder.
The motive is completely consequential even if the action is still the same.
The motive for hate crime is consequential for at least three reasons:
First, hate crimes can act as a form of community terror that intimidates not only the individual victim but an entire group. By targeting protected characteristics (age, race, religion, sexual orientation), hate crimes cause greater societal damage and warrant enhanced punishment. Hate crimes send a message to entire communities that they are unsafe, unwelcome, or inferior.
Second, like burglary, hate crimes are more psychologically traumatic than similar non-bias crimes. The victim was selected based on a characteristic the victim cannot control. The victim will feel unsafe based on a characteristic the victim cannot control.
Third, and possibly most important, hate crimes can cause members of the victims community to seek retribution. Not only against the perpetrator of the hate crime, but also against members of the perpetrator's community. This reason is similar to the reason we have laws that enhance punishment for gang violence.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:38 am to Salviati
quote:
Third, and possibly most important, hate crimes can cause members of the victims community to seek retribution. Not only against the perpetrator of the hate crime, but also against members of the perpetrator's community. This reason is similar to the reason we have laws that enhance punishment for gang violence.
So... punishing a criminal harsher because of how other criminally minded people may potentially act in the future?
Sounds good, doesn’t work. Actually, doesn’t even sound good.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:41 am to Pettifogger
quote:Only a fool believes the laws are applied evenly under any criminal statute.
Hate crime law proponents live in a fantasy world where a) the laws are applied evenly and b) there is some broader social impact and hate crime enhancements help to curb it.
But in reality, because a) is false, the actual potential for b) is greatly reduced (as seen with the rash of anti-Jewish stuff in recent years.
But you at least admit that there is some broader social impact and hate crime enhancements help to curb it even if "the actual potential for [it] is greatly reduced (as seen with the rash of anti-Jewish stuff in recent years."
Sure, the actual potential for reducing hate crimes through hate crime laws is not perfect. But the same is true for any crime:
The actual potential for reducing burglary through burglary laws is not perfect.
The actual potential for reducing robbery through robbery laws is not perfect.
But we don't fail to enact and enforce the laws merely because they cannot eliminate the actions they criminalize.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:44 am to NIH
quote:Are you posting about the thread in which I posted for almost three hours?
Why did you disappear from the festival thread?
I left to eat dinner.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:45 am to Klark Kent
I’ll clarify the distinction. Motive tied to how the crime was committed determines the level of intent, while motive tied to who the victim is assigns extra weight based on identity rather than the act itself.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:46 am to CR4090
quote:If you kill a gay, Christian cop because he started mowing at 6 on Sunday, that is NOT a hate crime. It does not meet the elements of the Louisiana hate crime statute.
But to me this is about using some arbitrary feelings when the act itself should be enough to demand justice. If you kill a gay, Christian cop because he started mowing at 6 on Sunday that should be enough to get you life. You killed someone, none of that other stuff matters.
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:46 am to Salviati
quote:
Salviati
Groups of black dudes from the south side of Chicago take the train up to the wealthier north side neighborhoods and target white women, whom they rob at gunpoint.
Hate crimes?
(This is not a theoretical by the way, it was actually happening in our neighborhood about the time we moved south).
This post was edited on 4/29/26 at 12:09 pm
Posted on 4/29/26 at 11:49 am to Klark Kent
quote:Welcome to the criminal justice system where the prosecution has to prove the intent of the accused.
So the real question is this:
Are we trying to punish the act itself, or are we trying to get inside someone’s head, rank their motives, and decide which victims matter more based on identity? (you and I know the answer to this question)
Because once you start judging crimes based on who the victim is instead of what actually happened, you’re not making anything more fair. You’re just making it more subjective.
And subjective justice tends to age about as well as milk in August.
This is not new. This is as old as criminal law itself.
And the action that is alleged to be a criminal action is not judged by itself. The action is judged with the circumstances, facts, and motives that surround it.
Page 4 of 9
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News