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re: Roe v Wade officially overturned

Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:40 pm to
Posted by FredBear
Georgia
Member since Aug 2017
17390 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:40 pm to
quote:

I am not trying to take you anywhere. Not everyone on this board has ulterior motives in a discussion. I am just not on board that every "right" has to be explicitly spelled out in the Constitution.




Any state that wants to keep abortion legal will still be able to. Your right to kill your own children is not being taken away federally
Posted by UndercoverBryologist
Member since Nov 2020
8077 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

Undercover: "It's in there somewhere dammit"


Is it the position of the conservative legal establishment that the plain text Ninth Amendment doesn’t exist?

The question was asked “where in the Constitution is abortion a right?”

1) The Ninth Amendment says that unenumerated rights exist and they are given the same weight as enumerated ones.

2) English common law, which rolled over into American common law, recognized first trimester abortions as a legal right.

3) If there exists unenumerated rights and if the Founders’ original views of such rights hold substantial weight as to how we interpret such rights, then yes, there is a cogent legal argument that the Constitution enshrines such rights and that first trimester abortion would be such a right.
Posted by SoonerK
Member since Nov 2021
1014 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

Any state that wants to keep abortion legal will still be able to. Your right to kill your own children is not being taken away federally


I am not specifically talking about abortion. I am talking about the view that every "right" needs to be spelled out in the Constitution.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89069 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

The question was asked “where in the Constitution is abortion a right?”



And the answer is it isn't. That was fun.
Posted by Sao
East Texas Piney Woods
Member since Jun 2009
68469 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:44 pm to

Well, the BOR has become a joke as well. Agree?
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89069 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

Well, the BOR has become a joke as well. Agree?




Just say what you want to say.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
70924 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:44 pm to
I much prefer the federal government's rights to be exhaustively enumerated.

Individual rights were never meant to be, so that is either a misunderstanding on your part, or a straw man.
Posted by MSUDawg98
Bear the F Down
Member since Jan 2018
13817 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:44 pm to
Watching the news and them talking about abortions scheduled for today having been canceled. Imagine the kids born as a result and this conversation happening.
Posted by UndercoverBryologist
Member since Nov 2020
8077 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:46 pm to
quote:

And the answer is it isn't. That was fun.


Repeal the Ninth Amendment then, because it says that enumeration does not matter with regards to personal Liberty. The constitution protects both enumerated and unenumerated rights.

And as understood at the founding in the Common Law, first trimester abortions were a right.
This post was edited on 6/24/22 at 3:48 pm
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89069 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:47 pm to
quote:

Repeal the Ninth Amendment then


I'm good.
quote:

And as understand at the founding in the Common Law, first trimester abortions were a right.


If you say so. But not really though.
Posted by BR92
Member since Apr 2021
1059 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:49 pm to
That was fun
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
40785 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:49 pm to
You think you scored a gotcha, dontcha? You ran here gleefully to display your pseudo-intellect and preen with all the praise you were sure was going to come, didn't you?

Since the child is a living human being, I believe his or her right to life supercedes any right that you strained to fabricate the mother has to murder it.
Posted by UndercoverBryologist
Member since Nov 2020
8077 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:49 pm to
quote:

I much prefer the federal government's rights to be exhaustively enumerated.


That’s a position I can respect, if not share. The problem, from your position, is that the Ninth Amendment says enumeration itself doesn’t matter.
Posted by Sao
East Texas Piney Woods
Member since Jun 2009
68469 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:50 pm to

He's good
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
15267 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

And as understood at the founding in the Common Law, first trimester abortions were a right.



once again read the Supreme Court decision, it has an extensive history section in it. (something Roe and Casey did NOT have)

This post was edited on 6/24/22 at 3:52 pm
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
89069 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:51 pm to
quote:

He's good




I'm better than some clown that came to this thread to push some bullshite interpretation that doesn't jive with what the court says.

Better than you too
This post was edited on 6/24/22 at 3:52 pm
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
45875 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

Repeal the Ninth Amendment then, because it says that enumeration does not matter with regards to personal Liberty. The constitution protects both enumerated and unenumerated rights.

And as understood at the founding in the Common Law, first trimester abortions were a right.


Don't you find it rather odd that no actual constitutional legal scholars out there are making this argument?
Posted by Sao
East Texas Piney Woods
Member since Jun 2009
68469 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:55 pm to

Then, all debate ceases.
Posted by PassingThrough
Member since Sep 2021
2622 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

Since the child is a living human being, I believe his or her right to life supercedes any right that you strained to fabricate the mother has to murder it.


Except that even murder is legal in the case of self defense.
Posted by UndercoverBryologist
Member since Nov 2020
8077 posts
Posted on 6/24/22 at 3:57 pm to
quote:

once again read the Supreme Court decision, it has an extensive history section in it. (something Roe and Casey did NOT have)


I know. Alito cites Blackstone’s view that the abortion of a “quick child” (i.e. later than first trimester) is murder and should be treated differently than the abortion of a pre-quick child. As I said, the common law at the time recognized this distinction.
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