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Robert E. Lee claimed his first battlefield victory on this day 164 years ago...
Posted on 6/27/26 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 6/27/26 at 12:22 pm
June 27, 1862. The Battle of Gaines' Mill.
After the bloody repulse at Mechanicsville (Beaver Dam Creek) the day before, Fitz John Porter pulled his V Corps back to a formidable position behind Boatswain's Swamp, a boggy creek fronting a semicircular line on high ground. Porter's was the lone Union corps north of the Chickahominy, and Lee meant to crush it before McClellan could intervene.
Lee planned a converging assault, but it opened piecemeal. A.P. Hill's Light Division attacked the Union center in mid-afternoon and was savaged, his charges breaking apart against Porter's tiered line. Stonewall Jackson, whose wing was supposed to come down hard on the Union right, was again sluggish in his Seven Days form. His columns took wrong roads and arrived late, so the early fighting lacked the coordination Lee wanted.
James Longstreet, posted on the Confederate right opposite the Union left, was at first ordered only to demonstrate. Seeing that a feint would accomplish nothing, he committed to a full assault. As evening came on, Lee finally got his concentrated blow: Longstreet drove hard against the Union left while Jackson's wing pressed the Union right, stretching Porter's line until it had nothing left in reserve. The decisive stroke landed around 7 PM, when Whiting's division (nominally part of Jackson's command but fed into the center to support the main attack) charged across Boatswain's Swamp. John Bell Hood's Texas Brigade, with the 4th Texas in the lead, punched clean through, and the Union line collapsed.
Porter's corps fell back toward the Chickahominy in the dark, spared total ruin by late reinforcements and a desperate covering charge by the 5th U.S. Cavalry. Lee won, but at a steep cost. Confederate losses ran to roughly 8,000, the heaviest of the Seven Days, against about 6,800 Union casualties, many of them captured. Strategically it was the turning point of the campaign: the defeat convinced McClellan to abandon his drive on Richmond and retreat to the James River and the protection of the Navy's gunboat flotilla.
After the bloody repulse at Mechanicsville (Beaver Dam Creek) the day before, Fitz John Porter pulled his V Corps back to a formidable position behind Boatswain's Swamp, a boggy creek fronting a semicircular line on high ground. Porter's was the lone Union corps north of the Chickahominy, and Lee meant to crush it before McClellan could intervene.
Lee planned a converging assault, but it opened piecemeal. A.P. Hill's Light Division attacked the Union center in mid-afternoon and was savaged, his charges breaking apart against Porter's tiered line. Stonewall Jackson, whose wing was supposed to come down hard on the Union right, was again sluggish in his Seven Days form. His columns took wrong roads and arrived late, so the early fighting lacked the coordination Lee wanted.
James Longstreet, posted on the Confederate right opposite the Union left, was at first ordered only to demonstrate. Seeing that a feint would accomplish nothing, he committed to a full assault. As evening came on, Lee finally got his concentrated blow: Longstreet drove hard against the Union left while Jackson's wing pressed the Union right, stretching Porter's line until it had nothing left in reserve. The decisive stroke landed around 7 PM, when Whiting's division (nominally part of Jackson's command but fed into the center to support the main attack) charged across Boatswain's Swamp. John Bell Hood's Texas Brigade, with the 4th Texas in the lead, punched clean through, and the Union line collapsed.
Porter's corps fell back toward the Chickahominy in the dark, spared total ruin by late reinforcements and a desperate covering charge by the 5th U.S. Cavalry. Lee won, but at a steep cost. Confederate losses ran to roughly 8,000, the heaviest of the Seven Days, against about 6,800 Union casualties, many of them captured. Strategically it was the turning point of the campaign: the defeat convinced McClellan to abandon his drive on Richmond and retreat to the James River and the protection of the Navy's gunboat flotilla.
5
Posted on 6/27/26 at 1:36 pm to RollTide1987
A drop in the bucket. The confederacy was a doomed effort from the start
Posted on 6/27/26 at 4:54 pm to TIGERHOLD
quote:
A drop in the bucket. The confederacy was a doomed effort from the start
Fake news. South could have won. Prediction markets at the time gave them roughly 44%, which is prob about right.
Needed better diplomacy and - ironically - more centralized decision making, especially in the beginning.
Biggest whiff of the whole war was after the first battle of bull run where the South didn’t know what to do after its victory so decided the best course of action was to just sit there with their thumb up their arse.
And of course Lee fricked up Gettysburg. And once Grant and Sherman started rolling then it truly was just a matter of time.
But war could have been won.
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:28 pm to Obi Wan Ryobi
quote:
But war could have been won.
Yes, but Thank God that the Union won so that the USA can now be made Safe and Welcoming for TransKids !!
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:36 pm to Obi Wan Ryobi
The North had most advantages, and was destined to win once they got past the clownfest of generals like McCellan and Pope and finally got a decent general in Grant.
There’s some argument Lee is overrated, and if he really was as great as claimed, he would have been able to win the war while the Union was going through their pre-Grant clownfest of generals.
There’s some argument Lee is overrated, and if he really was as great as claimed, he would have been able to win the war while the Union was going through their pre-Grant clownfest of generals.
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:38 pm to UFFan
quote:a pretty decently sized one
There’s some argument Lee is overrated
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:55 pm to UFFan
quote:
The North had most advantages, and was destined to win once they got past the clownfest of generals like McCellan and Pope and finally got a decent general in Grant. There’s some argument Lee is overrated, and if he really was as great as claimed, he would have been able to win the war while the Union was going through their pre-Grant clownfest of generals.
The North’s advantages are well documented, but the South had many advantages too. Wars are won by the side that best flexes their advantages, which the North ended up doing.
Lee might be a tad overrated but the bigger story is Grant is vastly underrated. “We’re going to stop worrying about what Lee is going to do next and make him start worrying what we’re going to do next” is the attitude change on the Union side that spelled the beginning of the end for the South by that point.
That said, it’s not just on the battlefield the South failed. If the South had a Benjamin Franklin / Lafayette type who could have brought in UK/France then it’s a different story.
Anyway, it’s all an interesting discussion. I think the North wins about 6 times out of 10. It absolutely wasn’t a sure thing.
This post was edited on 6/27/26 at 5:56 pm
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:58 pm to Obi Wan Ryobi
quote:
best course of action was to just sit there with their thumb up their arse.
Those were all my ancestors
Posted on 6/27/26 at 5:59 pm to UFFan
quote:
There’s some argument Lee is overrated
I can definitely sympathize with that argument. If you stack up his wins, losses, and draws, his record isn't that impressive. In the 33 engagements he is credited to have commanded in, he won just 10 of those:
Cheat Mountain - Loss (0-1-0)
Oak Grove - Draw (0-1-1)
Beaver Dam Creek - Loss (0-2-1)
Gaines' Mill - Win (1-2-1)
Garnett's and Golding's Farms - Draw (1-2-2)
Savage's Station - Draw (1-2-3)
Glendale - Draw (1-2-4)
Malvern Hill - Loss (1-3-4)
Second Manassas - Win (2-3-4)
South Mountain - Loss (2-4-4)
Antietam - Draw (2-4-5)
Fredericksburg - Win (3-4-5)
Chancellorsville - Win (4-4-5)
Gettysburg - Loss (4-5-5)
Bristoe Station - Loss (4-6-5)
Mine Run - Draw (4-6-6)
The Wilderness - Draw (4-6-7)
Spotsylvania Court House - Draw (4-6-8)
North Anna River - Draw (4-6-9)
Cold Harbor - Win (5-6-9)
Second Petersburg - Win (6-6-9)
The Crater - Win (7-6-9)
Deep Bottom - Win (8-6-9)
Ream's Station - Win (9-6-9)
Chaffin's Farm - Loss (9-7-9)
Peebles' Farm - Loss (9-8-9)
Boydton Plank Road - Win (10-8-9)
Hatcher's Run - Draw (10-8-10)
Fort Steadman - Loss (10-9-10)
Five Forks - Loss (10-10-10)
Third Petersburg - Loss (10-11-10)
Sailor's Creek - Loss (10-12-10)
Appomattox Court House - Loss (10-13-10)
Posted on 6/27/26 at 6:57 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Robert E. Lee
I think you mean Allen Toussaint.
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:25 pm to RollTide1987
“The North” was America.
“The South” was another country, poor people fighting for its rich people, to keep enslaved people, under the guise of states rights. Down by the Riverside is a catchy tune, and the Confederate flag looks good on a 1969 Chevelle bumper.
Romanticizing war and its atrocities is disrespectful to the maimed, their families and generations that follow, and ignores the selfish greed that rationalizes “sub human”families of slaves.
“The South” was another country, poor people fighting for its rich people, to keep enslaved people, under the guise of states rights. Down by the Riverside is a catchy tune, and the Confederate flag looks good on a 1969 Chevelle bumper.
Romanticizing war and its atrocities is disrespectful to the maimed, their families and generations that follow, and ignores the selfish greed that rationalizes “sub human”families of slaves.
This post was edited on 6/27/26 at 7:32 pm
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:28 pm to RollTide1987
frick that traitor.
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:32 pm to JerryTheKingBawler
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:33 pm to JerryTheKingBawler
quote:
frick that traitor.
Because he fought for the U.S. Constitution?
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:38 pm to Buck_Rogers
quote:
Because he fought for the U.S. Constitution?
The Bible only controls slavery and does not even eradicate it. Just think, God is even cool with en slaving his creation, breaking up families, and punishment and torture for select few…to enrich the select few.
Salute dat “Constitution” mindset?
Depends on who has the keys to the shackles.
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:39 pm to UFFan
quote:
There’s some argument Lee is overrated
That's why the Union begged him to lead their campaign. That's also why he did so much with so little.
The only thing that stopped Lee from winning the war was his chivalry.
What if Lee resorted to Sherman's tactics when he was at D.C.'s doorstep?
This post was edited on 6/27/26 at 7:42 pm
Posted on 6/27/26 at 7:45 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
There’s some argument Lee is overrated
quote:
a pretty decent sized one
And those people would/should be considered pretty ignorant.
He inherited an outmanned, outgunned army, won some of the most studied battles in American military history, kept the Confederacy in the fight for four years against overwhelming industrial and manpower advantages, and earned the respect of generals on both sides. You can condemn the cause he fought for while still recognizing he was an exceptionally talented commander.
And as far as Gettysburg goes. Gettysburg was a major mistake by Lee. Great commanders make mistakes. One battle doesn’t erase Second Manassas, Fredericksburg, Chancellorsville, the Seven Days, or the incredible performance of the Army of Northern Virginia under his command. By that standard, we’d have to call plenty of famous generals overrated. But you won’t.
This post was edited on 6/27/26 at 7:46 pm
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