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Started By
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re: Rivian exec: Elon and Tesla's LiDAR hesitancy isn't 'fully explainable'
Posted on 10/23/25 at 7:51 am to aubiecat
Posted on 10/23/25 at 7:51 am to aubiecat
quote:
How many real walls has a Tesla crashed through?
At least 16....
quote:
A NHTSA report on its investigation into crashes in which Tesla vehicles equipped with the automaker's Autopilot driver assistance feature hit stationary emergency vehicles has unearthed a troubling detail: In 16 of those crashes, "on average," Autopilot was running but "aborted vehicle control less than one second prior to the first impact."
LINK
This post was edited on 10/23/25 at 7:53 am
1
Posted on 10/23/25 at 7:54 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:quote:It is an electric car so…
Oilfieldbiology
I think you may be a bit biased.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:07 am to stendulkar
Not using LIDAR is truly a cost-cutting measure that Elon has mentioned in the past. He believes that the cost does not scale, not accounting for the fact that every other company will incorporate LIDAR and drive the costs down over time.
Feels like Elon pushed himself into this corner, and cant get his way out after he said that camera only approach is superior. Which is completely dumb, when everyone else is now using Cameras and LIDAR.
Eventually he will cave and start incorporating LIDAR so he can actually have self-driving cars. Not supervised driving cars.
Feels like Elon pushed himself into this corner, and cant get his way out after he said that camera only approach is superior. Which is completely dumb, when everyone else is now using Cameras and LIDAR.
Eventually he will cave and start incorporating LIDAR so he can actually have self-driving cars. Not supervised driving cars.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:12 am to BruslyTiger
quote:
What are you talking about, it ran through it like Wile E Coyote.
The wall wasn’t actual brick.
So the Tesla knew it could go straight through it.
It’s a joke. And a bad one because it has to be explained.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:18 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Then why not incorporate both lidar and optical sensors?
Tesla does a lot of good things but this shite is unacceptable. It is stupid crap like this that has led to BYD passing tesla.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:19 am to notsince98
Do most cars have redundant sensors? Wouldn’t that make the cars significantly more expensive?
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:20 am to Strannix
quote:
Who assumes the worlds greatest innovator and wealthiest man owes an explanation to them?
This is fallacious reasoning.
Hell, Elon is on record saying that some youtube reporter pointed something major out to him about how the rockets worked and he ran off and changed it.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:22 am to stendulkar
quote:
"I think they have a very sort of rigid point of view, I guess, on different sensor modalities, which I don't think is fully explainable just from an engineering point of view," Philbin told Business Insider's chief news editor, Steve Russolillo, during an event focused on the AI evolution of autonomous vehicles.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:22 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Do most cars have redundant sensors? Wouldn’t that make the cars significantly more expensive?
Yes, and everyone makes cars cheaper than Tesla with both now
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:23 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Do most cars have redundant sensors? Wouldn’t that make the cars significantly more expensive?
My kid is in the robotics club at his high school. Their robots use lidar (and other) sensors. The sensors themselves are relatively inexpensive. Less than $100. It's the software and programing that could become expensive.
TFMini-S - Micro LiDAR Module
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:24 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
Do most cars have redundant sensors? Wouldn’t that make the cars significantly more expensive?
any autonomous cars are going to require aviation level of reliability. That means redundant sensors AND nothing can be decided by just one sensor. Sensors will have to require group voting.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:26 am to wesfau
quote:
So you have fallen for the PR. Elon doesn't invent or make shite. He muscles his way in, buys tech and slaps his stupid mug all over it.
Why comment on something you know nothing about?
You sound like a damn fool.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:27 am to stendulkar
Rivian is correct. And Tesla's hesitancy is that they don't want to invest in two separate autonomous driving systems based on the hardware in their cars - until now none of them are compatible with LIDAR. They'd have to change cars they are building so they can do this in the future.
A lot of people think that the GM Super Cruise system is better than Tesla's for normal highway driving or commuting because it has the same hardware of Tesla but also the hardware to enable LIDAR mapping to keep the car dead center in the lane regardless of how worn out the stripes and pavements are. Tesla puts more constant improvements into their cars, but GM's has a massive advantage because of the hardware decisions they made.
Here's the unfortunate truth about Rivan. Tesla's system, while imperfect, is out there earning money for Tesla. Rivian still barely has any sales volume to refine and perfect their tech. Tesla does; and Tesla's is going to get as good as the tech allows with the limitations and constraints of the hardware in their vehicles.
GM is putting Super Cruise in every car they can (ICE or EV), and their volume is enormous. Their system takes more hardware than Teslas but in most cases it works better for the monotnous, boring long distance drives. The LIDAR system is 100% the way to go; and that's partially because GM was later to the game and thought about how to take what Tesla was going and make it better. They figured that the additional hardware would give them an advantage that Tesla can't match; and it very much has. So GM has a higher ceiling for improvements even if their rate of improvements is slower.
By the TM GM's Supercruise system came onto the market, Tesla's had already been out for a while. At the time the hardware for LIDAR was expensive, but not crippling. Now it's fairly cheap and I'm wondering why Tesla isn't adopting it for their future cars at least - the cost of two separate autonomous driving systems must be very high.
Right now I see the autonomous driving systems of Tesla being sort of like the Boeing 737 (insanely popular, but pushing the limits of the hardware in their cars), while GM is sort of the A320 (not as innovative but naturally a better/newer plantform and probably the basis of all future autonomous driving systems).
Tesla Fan bros: This is not a discussion on battery tech but on autonmous driving only. If that were about battery tech, battery thermal management, or charging- yeah Tesla is the market leader and GM, while better than most other legacy automakers, is still behind Tesla for now. And probably will be since EV investment is sort of declining.
A lot of people think that the GM Super Cruise system is better than Tesla's for normal highway driving or commuting because it has the same hardware of Tesla but also the hardware to enable LIDAR mapping to keep the car dead center in the lane regardless of how worn out the stripes and pavements are. Tesla puts more constant improvements into their cars, but GM's has a massive advantage because of the hardware decisions they made.
Here's the unfortunate truth about Rivan. Tesla's system, while imperfect, is out there earning money for Tesla. Rivian still barely has any sales volume to refine and perfect their tech. Tesla does; and Tesla's is going to get as good as the tech allows with the limitations and constraints of the hardware in their vehicles.
GM is putting Super Cruise in every car they can (ICE or EV), and their volume is enormous. Their system takes more hardware than Teslas but in most cases it works better for the monotnous, boring long distance drives. The LIDAR system is 100% the way to go; and that's partially because GM was later to the game and thought about how to take what Tesla was going and make it better. They figured that the additional hardware would give them an advantage that Tesla can't match; and it very much has. So GM has a higher ceiling for improvements even if their rate of improvements is slower.
By the TM GM's Supercruise system came onto the market, Tesla's had already been out for a while. At the time the hardware for LIDAR was expensive, but not crippling. Now it's fairly cheap and I'm wondering why Tesla isn't adopting it for their future cars at least - the cost of two separate autonomous driving systems must be very high.
Right now I see the autonomous driving systems of Tesla being sort of like the Boeing 737 (insanely popular, but pushing the limits of the hardware in their cars), while GM is sort of the A320 (not as innovative but naturally a better/newer plantform and probably the basis of all future autonomous driving systems).
Tesla Fan bros: This is not a discussion on battery tech but on autonmous driving only. If that were about battery tech, battery thermal management, or charging- yeah Tesla is the market leader and GM, while better than most other legacy automakers, is still behind Tesla for now. And probably will be since EV investment is sort of declining.
This post was edited on 10/23/25 at 8:48 am
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:28 am to stendulkar
Oh look the company that was going to be bankrupt and then got a massive bailout from the Biden administration because they hated Elon is chirping as if they have an actual opinion that’s worth anything.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:31 am to jnethe1
quote:
Oh look the company that was going to be bankrupt and then got a massive bailout from the Biden administration
They got a loan for the govt to build a plant in the USA.. no different than Tesla did in the past.
I am no Rivian fan boy, but they were not going bankrupt. They even got a partnership with VW just last year.
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:32 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
At least 16....
Maybe you didn't understand the question. How many real walls has Tesla crashed through? Don't link an article and call it something else.
Do you work for MSNBC?
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:47 am to N2cars
quote:This is the FIRST thing i saw in the quote. I thought to myself this guy is a terrible leader.
"I guess, I think, I don't think, sort of...:
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:52 am to UltimaParadox
quote:
not accounting for the fact that every other company will incorporate LIDAR and drive the costs down over time.
Right now I think GM is one of the only major players that is bent on using LIDAR hardware. That alone has driven the costs down because their volume is huge.
Nearly all Cadillacs, most GMC Denalis, about half of all of their pickup trucks/Suburbans have the hardware even if the car owners don't pay the subscription to use it or only using it sparingly. I think you can even get that tech in their lower priced cars like the Chevrolet Equinox or GMC Terrain now. And I suspect that the cars shares over the air data on mapping and road conditions even if the owners aren't paying to use the autonomous cruise system.
I don't think Ford's Blue Cruise uses LIDAR (or at least not all versions of Blue Cruise), but I think Ford is heading that way too. IMO if they aren't considering it, they should. They'll never beat TESLA on the same level playing field with the same hardware. The only way they can beat them is if they have a hardware advantage with LIDAR.
Same with Hyundai, Mercedes, BMW, and VW although they are all lower volume than Tesla, GM, and Ford.
This post was edited on 10/23/25 at 8:54 am
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:55 am to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Then why not incorporate both lidar and optical sensors?
FYI, Mark Rober has been called out for that video a lot. Go watch some of the videos pointing out the inconsistencies and deception in his video
Posted on 10/23/25 at 8:58 am to goofball
quote:
keep the car dead center in the lane regardless of how worn out the stripes and pavements are.
This is huge, especially in our shitty state, which can't even manage decent highway markings.
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