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Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:54 pm to Salmon
quote:
he reached under his shirt still after being shot 3 times
He was shot in the gut, what do you expect him to do? Seriously, on what planet is he a threat to any officers as he lay on the ground 5 feet from them after being shot twice in the stomach?
My problem is that there are so many things they CAN do at that point, but they opted for the fatal option because they could.
ETA: It goes back to my post on the MSB - just because you can end someone's life doesn't mean you should.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:54 pm to slackster
quote:
Check out this full video - LINK
They were responding to a call about a man walking around with a rifle. The guy got out with both hands out and showed both hands a few times, but obviously he wasn't compliant for the most part. He isn't hiding a rifle in his waistband though, and once he's shot in the gut and writhing on the ground, that isn't exactly justification to finish him.
Before we go any further, let me make it clear that he should have complied and he'd still be alive, but damn that doesn't excuse all of these actions by the police either.
I agree with you. The kid left the cops no other choice than to shoot him. However, as for the shots they put into him after he was down, there's no justifying that.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:55 pm to tduecen
OMG the rioting must be terrible.........oh wait, nevermind.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:56 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The kid left the cops no other choice than to shoot him. However, as the shots they put into him after he was down, there's no justifying that.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:56 pm to slackster
quote:
He was shot in the gut, what do you expect him to do?
I don't know
quote:
Seriously, on what planet is he a threat to any officers as he lay on the ground 5 feet from them after being shot twice in the stomach?
He still seemed to be moving around quite well. Dude was acting all kinds of weird before. In that situation, I have no idea how capable he is or what mind he has and I'm not taking any chances
quote:
My problem is that there are so many things they CAN do at that point, but they opted for the fatal option because they could.
they opted for the safest that they thought at the time
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 12:57 pm
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:57 pm to slackster
I don't understand killing him. I have no problem with the cops shooting him, they basically had no choice. They chose to kill him and I have an issue with that.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:58 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The kid left the cops no other choice than to shoot him.
Yeah I mean the initial stop is shady given the original call to which they were responding, and I'm really not sure how the law works if there is no probable cause for the initial stop, but that is a different argument altogether.
If you watch the WAFB video it doesn't tell the whole story. It didn't just start with the guy with his hand behind his back and 10 feet from the officers.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 12:59 pm to Salmon
Just because he's still moving while down on the ground does not mean he's still a threat. If that were the case then the cops can just go ahead and change their policies to say that once they shoot someone they keep shooting them until there's no doubt they're dead.
The kid had two slugs in his gut and was almost for sure going into shock. If anything his movements look like someone putting their hand over a gunshot wound, which is to be expected.
The kid had two slugs in his gut and was almost for sure going into shock. If anything his movements look like someone putting their hand over a gunshot wound, which is to be expected.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:00 pm to Polar Pop
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:02 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Just because he's still moving while down on the ground does not mean he's still a threat.
doesn't mean he isn't either
do you know? did the cops know? you taking that risk?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:05 pm to Salmon
quote:
they opted for the safest that they thought at the time
Maybe, and I'm sure that will be their argument, but my worry is always that they opt for that decision because they can. Hell, once you've shot him two or three times, what is the harm in finishing him sort of thing.
Nearly every time this kind of thing happens I continue to stress how low the bar is for "fearing for your life." I don't think an officer is out to kill anyone, but I fear they've been trained to resort to deadly force almost too easily because they can always fall back on being scared for their life.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:05 pm to Salmon
quote:
and once he's shot in the gut and writhing on the ground, that isn't exactly justification to finish him.
he reached under his shirt still after being shot 3 times
I don't have a problem with any of this
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have a problem with it either, but the cops are going to have to go through a bunch of BS before this all gets settled.
Their adrenaline had to be pumping, they don't know if the guy is armed, they do know he isn't complying, so after repeated warnings, including "You're gonna get shot!", they shot his dumb arse. How much clearer could they have been? Unless we find out this guy just arrived in Fresno from Bulgaria and didn't speak a word of English, he brought this on himself. For that matter, people in uniform pointing guns at you means "hands up" in every language, so it's still his fault, just with a mitigating circumstance.
The guy's flat on his back, facing away from the cops. He's grabbing at his shirt. Is he going for a gun or is he trying to plug some of the holes?
and once he's shot in the gut and writhing on the ground, that isn't exactly justification to finish him.
he reached under his shirt still after being shot 3 times
I don't have a problem with any of this
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't have a problem with it either, but the cops are going to have to go through a bunch of BS before this all gets settled.
Their adrenaline had to be pumping, they don't know if the guy is armed, they do know he isn't complying, so after repeated warnings, including "You're gonna get shot!", they shot his dumb arse. How much clearer could they have been? Unless we find out this guy just arrived in Fresno from Bulgaria and didn't speak a word of English, he brought this on himself. For that matter, people in uniform pointing guns at you means "hands up" in every language, so it's still his fault, just with a mitigating circumstance.
The guy's flat on his back, facing away from the cops. He's grabbing at his shirt. Is he going for a gun or is he trying to plug some of the holes?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:06 pm to slackster
quote:
Maybe, and I'm sure that will be their argument, but my worry is always that they opt for that decision because they can. Hell, once you've shot him two or three times, what is the harm in finishing him sort of thing.
Nearly every time this kind of thing happens I continue to stress how low the bar is for "fearing for your life." I don't think an officer is out to kill anyone, but I fear they've been trained to resort to deadly force almost too easily because they can always fall back on being scared for their life.
Jesus Christ dude, can you help yourself at all? I think you need professional help for whatever makes you always go against the grain.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:06 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
Just because he's still moving while down on the ground does not mean he's still a threa
Just because he has been shot twice doesn't mean he isn't still a threat. I will concede in the fact that watching the video, I don't think he is still a threat. The difference between you and me and those officers, they are making split second choices, we are not.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:06 pm to slackster
quote:
Nearly every time this kind of thing happens I continue to stress how low the bar is for "fearing for your life." I don't think an officer is out to kill anyone, but I fear they've been trained to resort to deadly force almost too easily because they can always fall back on being scared for their life.
no doubt and I completely agree with you
but how erratic this guy was acting, I see no fault in the officers because they had no idea what type of mind this guy had
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:07 pm to Salmon
quote:
doesn't mean he isn't either do you know? did the cops know? you taking that risk?
From watching the video, I do know he's not a threat. And they should have known as well. Think for one moment.
1. While he was still upright he was hiding his hand behind him. This would lead me to think if he's got a weapon, it's in the wasteland on his back. And I'd have shot him just like the cops did.
2. While he's on the ground, he's got his hands down around his stomach... WHERE HE WAS JUST SHOT. If it appeared he was reaching behind him while he was up just two seconds ago, how is him reaching toward his stomach now a threat? Did his weapon magically move from his back to his front?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:09 pm to Brazos
quote:
What time do we start rioting?
So silly. Not all lives matter...
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:09 pm to Darth_Vader
You know all that being able to observe from a distance, not being right there
Posted on 7/14/16 at 1:09 pm to slackster
quote:Hypothetical here...let's say the guy actually obeys the command of police to begin with. Is he dead?
ETA: It goes back to my post on the MSB - just because you can end someone's life doesn't mean you should.
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