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Started By
Message
re: Pilot Of Doomed Amazon Air Flight Had Poor Training Record, Seemed Confused Before Crash
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:05 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:05 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
rumors that he threatened to sue his former employer, Mesa, and Atlas for racial discrimination when both airlines attempted to fire him. Internet rumors. TIFWIW
The reality is, they don't even have to threaten
0
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:06 pm to ShortyRob
It's weird how aviation is such a hot button issue on this board. Say one little thing about an airplane and before you know it some latter-day Orville Wright is insulting your living room and making outlandish claims about your wife.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:19 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
4 different regionals in 5 years. Mesa tried to upgrade him! I’m guessing he was hired there as a direct entry captain or some shite. I’m sure this guy could handle the airplane WELL ENOUGH under normal circumstances, but was totally out to lunch during not only emergencies, but the unexpected hiccups pilots run into routinely. Judging by his training record not only was he of no assistance in an emergency, but took action to the detriment of the crew/aircraft/cargo(also evidenced by him turning a 76 into a submarine). I’ll never understand how a carrier can be desperate enough to hire a guy with documented AQP failures(a generous program to start with IMO).
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:35 pm to HerkFlyer
quote:
I’ll never understand how a carrier can be desperate enough to hire a guy with documented AQP failures(a generous program to start with IMO).
This isn't even remotely complicated.
quote:
Today, 4.1 percent of airline transport pilots (ATPs) are women, 2.7 percent are black or African-American, 2.5 percent are Asian and 5 percent are Hispanic or Latino.
When an organization is confronted with stats like this, they'll drag a black man out of a box on the city corner if they think they can make it work.
Such is the absurdity that is America
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:53 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
This isn't even remotely complicated. quote: Today, 4.1 percent of airline transport pilots (ATPs) are women, 2.7 percent are black or African-American, 2.5 percent are Asian and 5 percent are Hispanic or Latino.
Anecdotal evidence incoming, but I’ve met enough good minority pilots to believe that they can fire the shitty ones when necessary. The numbers you quoted are of ATP rated types. I’d be willing to bet they are better represented in airline new hire classes. Point I’m trying to make is minority groups are represented well enough that a company should be able to objectively fire one if they suck.
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 8:54 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:56 pm to FightnBobLafollette
quote:
You aren’t helping anybody. Just showing your ignorance.
FightnBob always showing his ignorance.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 8:57 pm to HerkFlyer
quote:Now women on the other hand....
Anecdotal evidence incoming, but I’ve met enough good minority pilots to believe that they can fire the shitty ones when necessary. The numbers you quoted are of ATP rated types. I’d be willing to bet they are better represented in airline new hire classes. Point I’m trying to make is minority groups are represented well enough that a company should be able to objectively fire one if they suck.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:01 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
No comment...
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:42 pm to USMEagles
quote:
After the 2009 Colgan Air crash, Congress required the Federal Aviation Administration to set up a clearinghouse including FAA and employer records on pilots to aid carriers in vetting them, but it has yet to complete the process.
How in the frick has it been 10 years and the FAA doesn’t have a system set up to check pilot backgrounds. This should’ve been in place 50 years ago.
Posted on 12/21/19 at 9:50 pm to HerkFlyer
quote:This misses the point.
Anecdotal evidence incoming, but I’ve met enough good minority pilots to believe that they can fire the shitty ones when necessary.
When you're numbers are as I quoted, you are in need of roughly 3X as many black pilots just to shut the race baiters up.
Hence, to get fired, you practically are gonna have to rape the CEO's kid.
quote:Perhaps. But any Google Search of pilots from any carrier will yield you almost nothing but white dudes.
The numbers you quoted are of ATP rated types. I’d be willing to bet they are better represented in airline new hire classes
quote:Well enough to YOU isn't remotely well enough to people who are obsessed with counting colors and vaginas.
Point I’m trying to make is minority groups are represented well enough
Posted on 12/21/19 at 11:02 pm to BayouBengals18
Not that it explains how this guy got through, but the system you speak of has been in place since 1996
This post was edited on 12/21/19 at 11:04 pm
Posted on 12/21/19 at 11:19 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
This misses the point.
Look, I agree with what you’re saying for the most part. I prefaced my post with the word “anecdotal” because I don’t actually know the numbers nor feel like looking them up. I feel that roughly 13% of the people I fly with are black and good at their job.
I just have this pie in the sky view where I think people who suck at flying shouldn’t fly for a living, regardless of race.
quote:
Old white dudes
FIFY
quote:
Well enough to YOU isn't remotely well enough to people who are obsessed with counting colors and vaginas.
You’re probably right here
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:57 am to greenwave
Both were caused by pilot error although the initial cause of AF447 was an instrumentation error (airspeed read falsely high due to bad input from a frozen pitot tube).
The AF pilots pulled the nose up as not to overspeed and put the aircraft in a stall. They should have recognized the instrumentation error but didn’t. There is now an emergency procedure on Airbus aircraft due to this crash.
In the Atlas crash it was all pilot ineptness.
The plane yells at you and says “Dual Input, Dual Input!!” and there is an annunciation on the glareshield right in front of your eyes when both pilots are maneuvering their sidesticks simultaneously. One pilot can also disable another’s sidestick in the case of sidestick failure.
The AF pilots pulled the nose up as not to overspeed and put the aircraft in a stall. They should have recognized the instrumentation error but didn’t. There is now an emergency procedure on Airbus aircraft due to this crash.
In the Atlas crash it was all pilot ineptness.
quote:
The cockpit Synthetic Voice (SV) however does give an aural message 'Dual Control'.[246] Ross reasoned that this might in part explain why the pilot flying's fatal nose-up inputs were not countermanded by his two colleagues.[259][261]
The plane yells at you and says “Dual Input, Dual Input!!” and there is an annunciation on the glareshield right in front of your eyes when both pilots are maneuvering their sidesticks simultaneously. One pilot can also disable another’s sidestick in the case of sidestick failure.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 2:42 am to RedRifle
I partially attribute this problem and this particular accident to the increasingly low abundance of certified pilots under CFR 14 part 121. This crisis is just beginning to rear its ugly, scary head.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 3:56 am to GeauxxxTigers23
We have to fill out forms with massive amounts of info to buy a gun, all 50 states are able to pull you up in their systems by tag or license, and now doctors-pharmacies for Opioids. Why in the hell isn't there a system at the FAA in place that mandates negative actions/events to be entered and checked frequently? This guy was a ticking time bomb.
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 4:19 am
Posted on 12/22/19 at 7:01 am to RedRifle
Reading that article is frustrating. The guy sounded mentally handicapped and shouldn’t have been flying planes.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 7:38 am to donRANDOMnumbers
How are pilots not able to feel a considerable decent? I’ve never piloted an airplane but riding in the back you can certainly feel a change from going up to descending. I understand the night and clouds disorient you, but I don’t understand how flying a cargo jet which basically means slow and calculated maneuvers, you get so disoriented you don’t know which direction you are going? I can understand a a very gentle decent and not maintaining altitude, but I don’t understand a decent so fast you can’t recover? I mean how were they like 45 degrees off with no idea until it was too late?
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 7:39 am
Posted on 12/22/19 at 7:49 am to baldona
quote:
How are pilots not able to feel a considerable decent? I’ve never piloted an airplane but riding in the back you can certainly feel a change from going up to descending.
It seems like that should be the case, but it’s not. When I was in my pilot training the instructor had me don foggles, and he put the plane in an unusual attitude and asked me to level it by feel. When I said I felt I had it level he had me remove the foggles. I was in a left banking steep dive. You cannot fly an airplane by seat-of-the-pants.
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 7:50 am
Posted on 12/22/19 at 7:53 am to Penrod
Then maybe they need a 3rd person in the cockpit to just stand up. If they fall forward they are descending, if they fall to the ceiling the plane is upside down!
Kidding obviously. But I’d a pilot in a cargo plane doesn’t know what their Angle of attack is they have screwed up bigly or just completely suck like these two. In a Cessna, fighter, or stunt plane sure I get it.
I also came to say, I can see having one crappy pilot in a plane. But 2? Save your money by having a cheaply paid FO, having a crappy FO and Captain is 100% on the company.
Kidding obviously. But I’d a pilot in a cargo plane doesn’t know what their Angle of attack is they have screwed up bigly or just completely suck like these two. In a Cessna, fighter, or stunt plane sure I get it.
I also came to say, I can see having one crappy pilot in a plane. But 2? Save your money by having a cheaply paid FO, having a crappy FO and Captain is 100% on the company.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 9:01 am to baldona
quote:
Kidding obviously. But I’d a pilot in a cargo plane doesn’t know what their Angle of attack is they have screwed up bigly or just completely suck like these two. In a Cessna, fighter, or stunt plane sure I get it.
Spatial disorientation is real. It kills pilots all the time. The brain/inner ear can do some crazy stuff, the difference is training and experience.
I've had it a few times, but it wasn't debilitating and I was able to over come it quickly. Once was a moonless, clear night. Stars everywhere, but so were shrimp boats. The night sky and the water blended and the shrimp boats looked exactly like stars. It gave me the incredible sensation of a nose high attitude, pointing into the sky. Took about 20 -30 seconds to over come and I had to completely shutoff everything except the instruments.
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 9:03 am
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