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Started By
Message
re: Pilot Of Doomed Amazon Air Flight Had Poor Training Record, Seemed Confused Before Crash
Posted on 12/22/19 at 9:11 am to slacker130
Posted on 12/22/19 at 9:11 am to slacker130
keep this thing alive for a few hours, have some input on this but have to go give some training to a couple of guys on the subject matter first, buddy of mine called in sick and asked me to do it for him
0
Posted on 12/22/19 at 10:02 am to Penrod
quote:
Man do you ever misquote/interpret.
ETA: I’m talking to three guys on here, one of which is in this thread and is a highly experienced pilot. The other two are flying an F-15 and C-130 and are qualified to fly for the airlines.
Because when multiple things are going wrong, alarms are going off and you are searching for an answer having the plane move drastically one way or another could easily happen especially if they are buckled in.
If i can find it i will link an air crash that happened because a lightbulb on the panel burned out and the crew couldn't agree on if they should change it there, wait until landing and get maintenance to do it or if the burned out light indicated something.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 10:05 am to dupergreenie
I think you quoted the wrong post.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 10:08 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
think you quoted the wrong post.
I totally did and its my mistake. Im not sure how I even managed that.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 10:54 am to dupergreenie
one graph from the FDR report says a lot, such as:
- 12:38:00, speed brake is at 80 deg (FDR value),
- 12:38:04, Flaps 1 was selected,
- 12:38:08, A/T G/A mode was selected (speculated to be unintentional...),
- 12:38:14, Flaps reach their selected position of 1,
- 12:38:32, G/A mode activates.
Everything could be considered "normal" before this point. Then the following occurs:
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Pitch increases to 5 degrees,
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Engines spool to 100% n1,
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Airspeed remains approximately 240 knots,
In essence, the aircraft initiated its go-around logic.
Then the disheartening begins:
- 12:38:37, Speed brake is stowed,
- 12:38:38, Control column (left) moves forward -- the right control column parameter was not recorded,
- 12:38:38, L/R elevator positions begin to disagree (speculating to indicate different positions between the L and R control column),
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds), Pitch goes from +5 deg, to approximately negative 50 degrees,
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds), Airspeed goes from 240 knots to 400+ knots,
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds, Engines are momentarily reduced to 75% n1, then returned to 100% n1 (A/T GA mode engaged still?),
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), control column goes from forward/nuetral positions to 10 deg back (the greatest deflection recorded),
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), pitch increases from negative 50 to negative 17 degrees,
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), N1 reduces to 75%.
- 12:38:00, speed brake is at 80 deg (FDR value),
- 12:38:04, Flaps 1 was selected,
- 12:38:08, A/T G/A mode was selected (speculated to be unintentional...),
- 12:38:14, Flaps reach their selected position of 1,
- 12:38:32, G/A mode activates.
Everything could be considered "normal" before this point. Then the following occurs:
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Pitch increases to 5 degrees,
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Engines spool to 100% n1,
- 12:38:32—12:38:37 (5 seconds), Airspeed remains approximately 240 knots,
In essence, the aircraft initiated its go-around logic.
Then the disheartening begins:
- 12:38:37, Speed brake is stowed,
- 12:38:38, Control column (left) moves forward -- the right control column parameter was not recorded,
- 12:38:38, L/R elevator positions begin to disagree (speculating to indicate different positions between the L and R control column),
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds), Pitch goes from +5 deg, to approximately negative 50 degrees,
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds), Airspeed goes from 240 knots to 400+ knots,
- 12:38:38—12:38:58 (20 seconds, Engines are momentarily reduced to 75% n1, then returned to 100% n1 (A/T GA mode engaged still?),
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), control column goes from forward/nuetral positions to 10 deg back (the greatest deflection recorded),
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), pitch increases from negative 50 to negative 17 degrees,
- 12:38:58 — 12:39:03 (last 5 seconds before impact), N1 reduces to 75%.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 11:32 am to RedRifle
quote:Atlas Air Worldwide Wins Air Force One Training Contract
In September 2012, Atlas Air renewed a training contract with the United States Air Force to continue to provide training for the pilots of Air Force One. The contract also provides training for the Presidential Airlift Group for a five-year period.
ummm....
Posted on 12/22/19 at 11:48 am to HarryBalzack
That sounds like it’s just for 747 type training. Those guys are highly experienced Air Force pilots prior to being selected to fly AF1.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 11:53 am to RedRifle
The best part is the family is suing the airlines. 'Murica!
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:06 pm to NPComb
quote:
The best part is the family is suing the airlines. 'Murica!
Don't be shocked if they win some money.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:12 pm to RedRifle
I don't know about the rest of you but if I knew I wasn't a good pilot that's one thing I wouldn't try to fake and figure it out in the air 
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:35 pm to HerkFlyer
And probably using AF or AF contracted IPs
ETA: we’ve trained AF1 crews for years when it was a 707, -135 crews too
ETA: we’ve trained AF1 crews for years when it was a 707, -135 crews too
This post was edited on 12/22/19 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:51 pm to 777Tiger
Isn’t OleWarSkuleAlum a pilot?
Posted on 12/22/19 at 12:55 pm to fallguy_1978
There's a few things you probably shouldn't learn by trial and error. Flying a wide body airplane will never be on my list of things I can "wing".
Posted on 12/22/19 at 3:55 pm to slacker130
quote:
Once was a moonless, clear night. Stars everywhere, but so were shrimp boats. The night sky and the water blended and the shrimp boats looked exactly like stars. It gave me the incredible sensation of a nose high attitude, pointing into the sky. Took about 20 -30 seconds to over come and I had to completely shutoff everything except the instruments.
Well that sounds terrifying.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 4:00 pm to ShortyRob
suddenly it all makes sense how he kept his job
Posted on 12/22/19 at 4:42 pm to slacker130
quote:This is why you put the windshield covers in while you’re flying bro.
I've had it a few times, but it wasn't debilitating and I was able to over come it quickly. Once was a moonless, clear night. Stars everywhere, but so were shrimp boats. The night sky and the water blended and the shrimp boats looked exactly like stars. It gave me the incredible sensation of a nose high attitude, pointing into the sky. Took about 20 -30 seconds to over come and I had to completely shutoff everything except the instruments.
Posted on 12/22/19 at 5:15 pm to Chucktown_Badger
quote:
Well that sounds terrifying.
Yep, nothing fun about your senses lying to you in flight. There’s 3 types of spatial disorientation: Recognized, Unrecognized(bad), and Incapacitating(real bad).
This video is the best illustration I’ve ever seen of just how bad it can get. If you listen to the chatter in the first example, you can hear the pilot recognizing that he is experiencing spatial D(Recognized). You’ll hear him saying “oh shite” and see him outing the airplane in some crazy attitudes before his lead calls him and tells him to get on his gauges.
I’ve never had too severe of a case of it, but I’ve seen stuff that I was positive of what I was looking at and it turns out to not even be close. It’s interesting stuff, but will get your attention when it happens to you.
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