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Started By
Message
re: Outside Counsel (lawyers) billing for service is so ridiculous
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:08 am to JohnnyKilroy
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:08 am to JohnnyKilroy
quote:everyone knows you send it to OC so you can enjoy a long lunch
What stopped you from doing the work yourself?
1
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:26 am to wesfau
quote:
generally they don't want to be lead or do any of the actual litigation shite
No doubt!
I was trying a case once with another guy. We represented co-plaintiffs in the same case.
His client was a business lawyer who thought he knew better than the trial lawyers. He was constantly passing notes, whispering in his lawyer’s ear, etc. Worse still, he would keep his trial counsel up until all hours discussing “strategy.”
It was a long trial. One morning I walked out of my hotel to find my co-counsel in a rage. He was red faced and pulling hard on a Winston light.
“What’s wrong?”
He responded: “Clem is the problem.”
His client’s name wasn’t Clem, and I didn’t know a Clem, so I shot him a puzzled look.
“C-L-M Clem!” he said. “My client! That Crazy Little Motherfricker!”
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:27 am to sidewalkside
Lawyers are mostly shysters
Posted on 8/22/25 at 11:29 am to Salmon
quote:
I used to see if I could bill 4 hours to a client for 10 minutes worth of work all the time. Most of the time, they paid without questioning anything.
You do you.
But as a personal rule, I don’t confess wire fraud on this board.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 12:25 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
everyone knows you send it to OC so you can enjoy a long lunch
So why bitch? Your company paid 1800 for your to take a long lunch. Be grateful.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 12:31 pm to sidewalkside
So why do you utilize outside counsel for your “simple” questions?
Posted on 8/22/25 at 12:31 pm to RanchoLaPuerto
quote:
You do you.
But as a personal rule, I don’t confess wire fraud on this board.
4 hours for 10 mins is egregious but I've never met a single attorney who is fully on the up and up with their time.
Managing partner at a previous firm averaged 13 hours a day 365 days a year. They all paid.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:21 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
I didn't pay for shite. As one of the other posters said we make billions I'm not fighting it. Approve
Sounds like you did pay for it and you just don't care since it's not your money in your eyes. I bet you think this is a flex when in reality it makes you look like a supremely shitty manage just rubber stamping anything that comes across your desk. Good job though.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:22 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
Sounds like you did pay for it and you just don't care since it's not your money in your eyes. I bet you think this is a flex when in reality it makes you look like a supremely shitty manage just rubber stamping anything that comes across your desk. Good job though.
You don’t have anything to do with actual decision making, that you make clear from your posts
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:24 pm to sidewalkside
We cancelled a new SOW with an energy client because their attorneys were redlining every little bitty thing, changing grammar, changing punctuation, literally spent so much time just trying to put together stupid document that it was a waste of our time so we just stopped
They use outside attorneys , I can only imagine how expensive that got for them
They use outside attorneys , I can only imagine how expensive that got for them
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:35 pm to sidewalkside
If you think it's expensive paying enough to have things done right-- wait until you get it done on the cheap.
Sounds like you are convinced your law firm is ripping you off. If you don't trust them, go hire another.
Sounds like you are convinced your law firm is ripping you off. If you don't trust them, go hire another.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:37 pm to sidewalkside
Then stop calling them for relatively simple questions.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 1:39 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
Anybody else manage their companies outside counsel?
Yes. And it is the reason my company is sending me to law school.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 2:04 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
Anybody else manage their companies outside counsel?
Attorney here. You need to talk to people in the insurance industry. They have guidelines and bill audits that would never allow what you are talking about. They limit the number of people that can work a file and try to root out excessive billing for "routine requests."
Some of the guidelines are ludicrous. Some don't want to pay for travel time or only pay it at half-rate, even if we have to drive. Some don't want to pay for time spent waiting for your case to be called for a court hearing, even though you have no choice but to wait until the judge calls your case. And sometimes they don't understand the difference between a routine request and a novel issue of law.
But they do a good job of protecting the interests of the company.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 3:56 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You don’t have anything to do with actual decision making, that you make clear from your posts
Seems to me that LNCH is coming from a moral standpoint. Sounds exactly like what everyone needs from someone making their decisions.
and you sound defensive. like someone that’s always ready to take advantage.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 3:58 pm to sidewalkside
Fire em
Posted on 8/22/25 at 4:08 pm to HoustonGumbeauxGuy
quote:
We cancelled a new SOW with an energy client because their attorneys were redlining every little bitty thing, changing grammar, changing punctuation
Are your standard documents just shitty in general? I try not to wordsmith docs, but I’ve seen some appalling documents come across my desk.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 5:05 pm to sidewalkside
.
This post was edited on 12/2/25 at 4:26 am
Posted on 8/22/25 at 5:23 pm to callofthewild
Once upon a time, IBM built a skyscraper in New York City. When Tom Watson came to look it over, he didn't like the columns at the center as well as the elevator enclosures and announced he wanted them removed.
Nobody, but nobody was going to tell him that what he wanted would cause the building to collapse.
They hired several architectural firms to 'do the work" and tell him the news that yes, it would look better, but the building would collapse.
And that's a story from my Father who worked at IBM back (way back) in the day.
Nobody, but nobody was going to tell him that what he wanted would cause the building to collapse.
They hired several architectural firms to 'do the work" and tell him the news that yes, it would look better, but the building would collapse.
And that's a story from my Father who worked at IBM back (way back) in the day.
Posted on 8/22/25 at 6:22 pm to sidewalkside
quote:
Because you know...the staff attorney has to review the email...then send it to the junior attorney to "research" and then his answer has to be sent back up the the staff attorney and then reviewed by the partner before sending it back and VOILA just like that all three guys got billable hours on the engagement.
You do realize that the junior attorney probably bills at half the rate of the partner? That $1800 would turn into $3000 if he did it himself.
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