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re: One reason why I am against the wage increase to $15/hour
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:43 pm to Centinel
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:43 pm to Centinel
That's not the point. The point is our jobs are being automated away. Illegal immigrants tend to take shite jobs that the average person doesn't want to do. A person picking fruit or washing dishes for less than minimum wage isn't the reason people are hurting financially. Moving factories aboard really isn't the biggest issue either. It's automation with those jobs as well. Hardly anything is made by hand anymore. Anything that is people are looking to automate it away. shite, even many kinds of doctors are fricked long term.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 1:45 pm
1
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:44 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Well, it's a plan, at least.
Acting on a plan isn't always a good idea, particularly if it prolongs the start of better alternatives.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:45 pm to Korkstand
quote:
we know that there is a certain segment of people who are simply incapable of improving themselves. What to do?
You're not going to find many people arguing against helping the helpless.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:46 pm to Dr RC
quote:
That's not the point.
Ya, it kinda is since you specifically said automated jobs were taking away from the middle class, then listed those jobs....most of which weren't actual middle class jobs.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:46 pm to Dr RC
quote:
The middle class is getting eaten alive by technology not immigrants
Low skilled workers absolutely have been impacted by illegal immigration.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:48 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You're not going to find many people arguing against helping the helpless.
No, but you will find people arguing against being told when, where, and how much help you're going to give by politicians in DC. At gunpoint.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:48 pm to Tarik One
86 downvotes, there is more commies posting on here by the day.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:52 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Agreed, businesses do not exist to meet the needs of their employees. Hence government tends to get involved to make up for this deficiency of free markets.
But the “deficiency” is that people (presumably capable people) aren’t doing things that provide enough value to generate enough income to live on.
The solution should be to help them generate value, or create opportunities, or facilitate training, not to just throw money at people who aren’t really even in earning it.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:53 pm to Centinel
A lot of those jobs are middle class and many of them used to be before stagnant wages and inflation killed them.
But sure, keep blaming a day laborer who picks strawberries for American job losses.
But sure, keep blaming a day laborer who picks strawberries for American job losses.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 1:54 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:53 pm to Napoleon
quote:
The issue is wages didn't rise with inflation. Most older people lived in a world where you could pay rent, bills and a car note on a starting job.
$3 an hour in the 70s went far. $5 in the early 90s wasn't horrible.
You can't do nothing with $8 in almost 2020.
We don't have the machinists or factory jobs anymore. So many undereducated are stuck with minimum wage.
While agree, raising the wages will affect a companies bottom line. They will have to offset that buy increasing sales, so raising the price of their product or service.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:55 pm to Centinel
quote:Are you ok with it at the state or local level? At least if it doesn't affect you personally?
Your argument revolves around the premise we (government) must do something.
I reject that premise, at least at the national level.
If you feel that government has no responsibility as far as the welfare of its citizens, that's fine.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 1:58 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:I figured that much, but it seems there is a huge range where different people draw the "helpless" line.
You're not going to find many people arguing against helping the helpless.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:00 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Are you ok with it at the state or local level? At least if it doesn't affect you personally?
I'm definitely more open to discussing policy at the state and local level. I have no problem helping my fellow man. What I do have a problem with is a politician from California telling me how to help my fellow man here in South Carolina. Just as that California politician should have a problem with me telling him how his constituents should best be helped.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:02 pm to Centinel
quote:
I'm definitely more open to discussing policy at the state and local level. I have no problem helping my fellow man. What I do have a problem with is a politician from California telling me how to help my fellow man here in South Carolina. Just as that California politician should have a problem with me telling him how his constituents should best be helped.
I posted this several pages back. It's absolutely federal overreach. It should have always been a state issue.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:04 pm to Centinel
Not to mention, if you are going to institute a minimum wage it's far better done at the state or local level. There's a massive difference in cost of living in San Jose vs some rural town in Kansas.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:16 pm to StupidBinder
quote:I understand, and I was not arguing against that point. I also didn't mean that the free market itself is deficient in this way, because a free market cannot be deficient by definition. Free markets ignore worthless things, including people, as a natural consequence. I meant that civilized societies (and their governments) tend to address these shortcomings, even if they are not consciously acknowledged as such.
But the “deficiency” is that people (presumably capable people) aren’t doing things that provide enough value to generate enough income to live on.
quote:We have public schools, grants for higher education, tons of job training programs, etc. What more must be done in this regard? We can't force people to train for certain jobs.
The solution should be to help them generate value, or create opportunities, or facilitate training, not to just throw money at people who aren’t really even in earning it.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:25 pm to Centinel
quote:
I'm definitely more open to discussing policy at the state and local level. I have no problem helping my fellow man. What I do have a problem with is a politician from California telling me how to help my fellow man here in South Carolina. Just as that California politician should have a problem with me telling him how his constituents should best be helped.
Clearly from your prior posts you would favor eliminating federal welfare programs, correct? Assuming so, what do you think the result will be when the rich states get to keep more of their tax dollars per capita, and the poor states will receive less federal dollars per capita? Do you think the rich will get richer and the poor poorer? Vice versa? Or will everyone get richer?
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:40 pm to Korkstand
quote:
but it seems there is a huge range where different people draw the "helpless" line.
There shouldn't be. Those who can't do for themselves.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:41 pm to Dr RC
quote:
But sure, keep blaming a day laborer who picks strawberrie
You're naive
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:43 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I understand, and I was not arguing against that point. I also didn't mean that the free market itself is deficient in this way, because a free market cannot be deficient by definition. Free markets ignore worthless things, including people, as a natural consequence. I meant that civilized societies (and their governments) tend to address these shortcomings, even if they are not consciously acknowledged as such.
OK I gotcha, and I agree with that. Free markets have to ignore worthless things because nobody wants something that is worthless. So if someone’s skill set is practically worthless and there is nothing they can do about that, then it’s appropriate for society to step in via the government IMO.
quote:
We have public schools, grants for higher education, tons of job training programs, etc. What more must be done in this regard? We can't force people to train for certain jobs.
So, I don’t think anything necessarily has to be done here, because I believe that the education/training in the US is mostly functional, but I do believe it can be a heck of a lot better and more efficient.
The main thing (IMO) is that I believe that people have to go way too far beyond K-12 to acquire job skills. Lots of the stuff getting taught in vocational schools or community college can be taught in high school. And a lot of what is learned in college can be acquired through associates degrees and even certificate programs. It would be good if education was “pushed downwards”, but the opposite seems to be happening as more and more “education” is required to do similar jobs. I think this is partially employer’s fault for requiring credentials that have nothing to do with the job they’re trying to fill, but also employees who go out and get educations with no plan on how to use them.
Lastly, you are definitely right that we can’t force people to train for different jobs. But we shouldn’t force other people to “fill in the earnings hole” for people make those kinds of choices either.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 2:48 pm
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