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1
Posted on 4/23/19 at 2:58 pm to StupidBinder
quote:Agreed, though I can understand how both employers and potential employees can continue to make these "errors". Employers would prefer to see a degree in anything over no degree at all simply for the fact that a degree shows that a person is capable and willing to learn something. That is a valuable trait in itself. And people with "worthless" degrees, yeah some seem to be completely worthless, while others may have held some value at one point but the applicable jobs may be disappearing. It's hard to predict the future, especially when you're 18 and everyone is telling you that you have to go to school.
It would be good if education was “pushed downwards”, but the opposite seems to be happening as more and more “education” is required to do similar jobs. I think this is partially employer’s fault for requiring credentials that have nothing to do with the job they’re trying to fill, but also employees who go out and get educations with no plan on how to use them.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:00 pm to Korkstand
quote:
We can't force people to train for certain jobs.
No. It's a choice, as it's always been
The avenue to better wages is available to every American, moreso than ever before. Increasing the min wage is just trying to help people who will not help themselves. It's pretty clear we have created a dependent class
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:00 pm to rallyTiger
quote:
A bunch of fast food workers in this thread, no way yalls patty flipping asses should be getting 15 an hour.
My wife is a college dropout and probably makes $30 per hour. I'm not sure exactly but somewhere around that. Never once asked anyone to pay for her crablegs (except for me. Dammit)
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:23 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
No. It's a choice, as it's always been
Agreed but it's a little difficult to tell a person hey if you work hard and try in few years you can make as much money as you would have if the government would have raised minimum wage to match inflation.
The incline to get from poverty to even lower middle class in this country is extremely steep, steeper than it has ever been. Making it less steep shouldn't be a bad thing.
what incentive does someone have to attempt to get off of welfare when it's a 4 - 10 year uphill struggle to equal the benefits they are getting now. Do people abuse that system? Of course they do but it isn't like we are giving them many options to get out of it either.
It's almost like we want to keep the poor people poor. funny how that works.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:25 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Agreed, though I can understand how both employers and potential employees can continue to make these "errors". Employers would prefer to see a degree in anything over no degree at all simply for the fact that a degree shows that a person is capable and willing to learn something. That is a valuable trait in itself. And people with "worthless" degrees, yeah some seem to be completely worthless, while others may have held some value at one point but the applicable jobs may be disappearing. It's hard to predict the future, especially when you're 18 and everyone is telling you that you have to go to school.
That’s two good points there.
I can’t remember which, but in one of my ECON classes, we spent about half the hour talking about what portion of the value of a degree is actually derived from its ability to signal some general level of competence. I had never thought of it that way before, but I left class thinking (and still think to this day think) “man, this is a lot of time, effort and money to prove to everyone that I’m not an idiot”
It’s true, lots of people get hired (or don’t get hired) based primarily on the fact that they have (or don’t have) a degree, of any kind. Like you said, there is some value in obtaining even “worthless” degrees, but it’s a terrible way of evaluating candidates and the only reason it’s done is because it’s really time consuming to parse our what someone knows/can do. Especially if you have to do that for 50 different candidates.
Also, good point about the 18 yo who don’t know what to do (that was me when I started at LSU). But I think there are some jobs that will stand the test of time. Trades like plumbers, welders, skilled carpenters, will be in demand for a long time. Engineering will never go away. Software development, same. Basically any job that requires a great deal of thought, discretion, or is nuanced, or has requirements that change frequently can’t be automated away in a pragmatic way. I think those are safe bets. Low level accounting might be a job people might want to stay away from, but even with that, there are other directions you can steer your career from their. I know accountants that moved on to become IT professionals, auditors, project managers etc.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:31 pm to Tarik One
im not against it.
There is not objective or logical reasoning for your argument besides you not thinking they deserve it. Thats not a sound basis for an economic policy. Unfortunately, its the basis for many policies...those who *deserve* get more, those that *don't deserve* get less...
how paternalistic
There is not objective or logical reasoning for your argument besides you not thinking they deserve it. Thats not a sound basis for an economic policy. Unfortunately, its the basis for many policies...those who *deserve* get more, those that *don't deserve* get less...
how paternalistic
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:33 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Thats not a sound basis for an economic policy.
Neither is raising min wage to $15
Are you under the impression that min wage workers are mentally incapable?
quote:
those who *deserve* get more, those that *don't deserve* get less..
This should always be the case. Those who create the most value, are rewarded so.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 3:35 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:41 pm to mindbreaker
quote:
Agreed but it's a little difficult to tell a person hey if you work hard and try in few years you can make as much money as you would have if the government would have raised minimum wage to match inflation.
Exactly. That’s why we can’t keep raising the minimum wage. The more it goes up, the more people get caught in the “working isn’t economically rational” black hole.
quote:
The incline to get from poverty to even lower middle class in this country is extremely steep, steeper than it has ever been. Making it less steep shouldn't be a bad thing.
It’s really not that steep.
A middle class family is bringing in about $60K a year. That’s a couple averaging about $15/hour each. I reject in its entirety, the notion that this is unattainable for most poor people. Might it be hard? Yeah probably. Is it possible? Absolutely without question.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:42 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Those who create the most value, are rewarded so
Value is *subjective*
I agree, to a point. we have a tendency to not judge producers of value equally though, even if their outputs are identical. In a purely free market/free enterprise society, this would work. However we can hold ourselves back at times by lowering value due to dumb, fruitless, baseless, discriminatory, utterly false social stigmas bc someone convinced us that those stigmas actually have objective significance
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:43 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Value is *subjective*
Not to an employer
quote:
However we can hold ourselves back at times by lowering value due to dumb, fruitless, baseless, discriminatory, utterly false social stigmas bc someone convinced us that those stigmas actually have objective significance
=|= no skill, no education.
If you want more money, stay at your job and advance or increase your education/training
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:43 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Neither is raising min wage to $15
Based on what? Our current spending? Perhaps. Perhaps we would have to cut other wasteful govt spending such as defense, large robust govt, govt auxiliary spending, salaries, positions, tax breaks that benefit few, etc.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:44 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
There is not objective or logical reasoning for your argument besides you not thinking they deserve it.
Here's the only logical or reasonable answer you need:
It's not your money.
quote:
how paternalistic
Says one of the biggest race baiters on this entire website.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:45 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Not to an employer
I wish all business weren't even partially swayed by public opinion and only their bottom line.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:46 pm to Centinel
quote:
It's not your money.
Its only as much yours as uncle sam doesnt tax.
we all gotta live here. pay up.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:46 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Based on what? Our current spending? Perhaps. Perhaps we would have to cut other wasteful govt spending such as defense, large robust govt, govt auxiliary spending, salaries, positions, tax breaks that benefit few, etc.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here. Any increase in the minimum wage would be paid by employers (and ultimately consumers), not the government.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:47 pm to StupidBinder
quote:
he opposite seems to be happening as more and more “education” is required to do similar jobs. I think this is partially employer’s fault for requiring credentials that have nothing to do with the job they’re trying to fill
This is kind of another example of employers not being willing to invest in their employees. I've seen jobs stay open for months while several very qualified candidates have sent resumes for, but most of them would need an amount of training the company wasn't willing to provide. They often want someone that can come in and hit the ground running from day one.
And part of the blame for that environment falls on employees, because nowadays they are willing to jump to a new opportunity with a different company after a short tenure.
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:47 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Clearly from your prior posts you would favor eliminating federal welfare programs, correct?
Correct.
quote:
Assuming so, what do you think the result will be when the rich states get to keep more of their tax dollars per capita, and the poor states will receive less federal dollars per capita?
The rich states have the option to have more lavish welfare programs. However that will come with it's own set of repercussions. California is already facing this to some extent.
quote:
Do you think the rich will get richer and the poor poorer?
That will all depend on how the state taxes and allocates the money. But that's the beauty of a dual federal system...you have fifty different opportunities to figure out the right balance. And if one state/system doesn't work for you, you're free to move to a state that does.
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:47 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
wish all business weren't even partially swayed by public opinion and only their bottom line.
Business is not a social service.
Employment is a mutual benefit. Want more money? Increase your value
Posted on 4/23/19 at 3:48 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
Its only as much yours as uncle sam doesnt tax.
Spoken like a true commie
It's not yours, it's ours, eh Comrade?
That's called slavery
This post was edited on 4/23/19 at 3:49 pm
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