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Started By
Message
On Malfunctioning 737 Max, Captain Had the Flu and Copilot Was a Sub
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:02 am
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:02 am
quote:
“Where is the...?” the copilot said, according to a partial transcript contained in a 322-page report on the jet’s doomed flight issued Friday by Indonesia’s National Transportation Safety Committee.
The captain reminded him again what to look for as the cockpit recorder picked up the sound of paper being shuffled. It took 3 minutes and 40 seconds before the emergency procedures -- steps so critical they are supposed to be memorized -- were found, though they weren’t completed. The plane slammed into the ocean almost 7 minutes later.
quote:
it also noted that both had shown problems during previous flight tests, known as check rides. The copilot, in particular, had exhibited difficulty in locating checklists and performing basic emergency procedures, the report found.
quote:
As they prepared the plane for takeoff last Oct. 28, the copilot said he’d been awakened at 4 a.m. and called in to make the flight. The captain complained that he had the flu, coughing repeatedly.
During the emergency, they failed to communicate, were repeatedly unable to keep the plane pointed in the proper direction and the copilot -- who took control just before the final high-speed dive -- showed poor manual flying skills, investigators said.
LINK
BUT, BUT, BUT BOEING! As I said from the start extremely poor flight aptitude caused this crash. If American pilots were in this aircraft the result would have been much different.
As a pilot myself it is unfathomable to not have access to a checklist or to not have the immediate action emergency steps memorized.
15
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:06 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
That may be true in this case, but Boeing's shite is stilled messed up.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:10 am to Jackie Chan
^This
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:11 am to Jackie Chan
quote:
That may be true in this case, but Boeing's shite is stilled messed up.
Boeing is victim right now of dirty PR tricks originating from AirBus and the corrupt EU. Boeing is the most reputable company in this sector and frankly the only company I would trust my life to.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:19 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
Isn’t Lion Air known as the worst airline in the world?
Doesn’t excuse Boeing’s negligence however.
Doesn’t excuse Boeing’s negligence however.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:23 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
Someone should have warned the Captain not to get a flu shot.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:24 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
The pilot may have screwed up, but it doesn’t change the fact that Boeing’s design was flawed, they did not adequately communicate the design to crews (Southwest pilots have already filed a lawsuit over this) and the FAA did not perform its due diligence, in fact they let Boeing handle key parts of the recertification.
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that US pilots are somehow wildly different from their foreign counter parts. That’s a narrative the pilots unions push to justify exorbitant wages.
Pilots are nothing more than systems operators these days. Monitoring the computer as it flies the plane.
That’s right plant baws! The gulf between you and a 737 pilot really isn’t big at all!
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that US pilots are somehow wildly different from their foreign counter parts. That’s a narrative the pilots unions push to justify exorbitant wages.
Pilots are nothing more than systems operators these days. Monitoring the computer as it flies the plane.
That’s right plant baws! The gulf between you and a 737 pilot really isn’t big at all!
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:24 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
It has been stated in other threads that Boeing shifted a lot of engineering to low cost countries that have little if any experience with aerospace engineering.
You get what you pay for.
You get what you pay for.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:25 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Boeing is victim right now of dirty PR tricks originating from AirBus and the corrupt EU. Boeing is the most reputable company in this sector and frankly the only company I would trust my life to.
Boeing’s PR has been nothing short of abysmal since the FAA forced it to found the plane. I’m talking take you PR exec out to the pasture and banish them type bad. Boeing’s response is going to be used as a case study in Mass Comm classes for years to come.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:29 am to SM6
quote:
Southwest pilots have already filed a lawsuit over this
Classic opportunism.
quote:
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that US pilots are somehow wildly different from their foreign counter parts.
They are wildly different. Foreign pilots get halfassed training. American pilots are trained to the absolute highest standard and a lot are former military pilots which puts them in a class of their own.
quote:
Pilots are nothing more than systems operators these days. Monitoring the computer as it flies the plane.
That’s great until you have an emergency like these clowns did and you see the predicable result. An American pilot has much better critical thinking skills and is not afraid to manually take the airplane. Foreign pilots are trained to press buttons not to pilot.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:30 am to SM6
quote:
Boeing’s PR has been nothing short of abysmal since the FAA forced it to found the plane. I’m talking take you PR exec out to the pasture and banish them type bad. Boeing’s response is going to be used as a case study in Mass Comm classes for years to come.
It’s tough when you are having to defend against downright lies coming from the EU / AirBus propaganda machine. The EU / AirBus are using this to be very dishonest and gain market share.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 7:31 am to SM6
quote:
Boeing’s PR has been nothing short of abysmal since the FAA forced it to found the plane.
The problem I think is that for Boeing to improve their PR they have to bash their customers’ incompetence. My guess is they were hoping the news/ 3rd party/ Boeing privately would do so sooner.
I think it’s pretty much known these crashes wouldn’t have occurred in the USA. There’s a major issue that shouldn’t be there but it was correctable with a good pilot.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 8:31 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
Intel from someone who did the initial investigation, all they had to do was uncouple the autopilot. They did,it recovered, then they turned the autopilot back on.
American pilots trained much differently with much different standards.
American pilots trained much differently with much different standards.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 8:58 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
If American pilots were in this aircraft the result would have been much different.
I had a experienced pilot tell me the same thing.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 9:03 am to SM6
quote:
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that US pilots are somehow wildly different from their foreign counter parts.
You're way off here.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 9:10 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
During the emergency,
What caused the emergency?
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:33 am to jeff5891
quote:
What caused the emergency?
This is while certainly major especially for those trained to only follow orders and not think for themselves, akin to the old school gps telling you to drive into a lake.
GPS: turn right in 100 yards
Driver: there’s no turn coming up let’s restart this GPS
Driver: restarts GPS
GPS: turn right in 100 yards
Driver: well damn I guess we turn right into the lake after all
Driver: turns into lake, “damn gps”
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:45 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
Your conclusion is the exact opposite of reality. If foreign pilots are so bad then why is the Boeing 737 Max the only plane that can’t stay in the air?
Horrible design and good chance it won’t fly again.
Horrible design and good chance it won’t fly again.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:49 am to Boston911
quote:This is literally the exact opposite of the truth. MCAS doesn’t operate when autopilot is on. In other words, turning autopilot ON would have disabled the system.
Intel from someone who did the initial investigation, all they had to do was uncouple the autopilot. They did,it recovered, then they turned the autopilot back on.
But then again you probably don’t want to have your autopilot on when your sensors are providing the wrong information and the plane thinks it’s climbing
Posted on 10/27/19 at 10:50 am to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
It’s tough when you are having to defend against downright lies coming from the EU / AirBus propaganda machine. The EU / AirBus are using this to be very dishonest and gain market share.
Business is hard. If Boeing is going to compete against EU companies, it's PR staff needs to be just as effective. No excuse and their is OBVIOUSLY more to this story than the narrative you paint.
Also, if BOEING sells to other countries, they need to DESIGN to those countries needs. Lives are at stake.
Again. No excuse.
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