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Message
re: On Malfunctioning 737 Max, Captain Had the Flu and Copilot Was a Sub
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:03 pm to slacker130
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:03 pm to slacker130
quote:
Let’s not kid ourselves into thinking that US pilots are somehow wildly different from their foreign counter parts.
quote:
You're way off here.
Am I though?
Plane is stalling, so naturally you pull up.
There are shitty aviators employed by airlines everywhere. To assume that American pilots are head and shoulders above foreigners is flat out asinine, but if you have some empirical evidence otherwise, I'd love to see it.
0
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:05 pm to Cold Drink
quote:
Two different brand new planes flew themselves into the ground and you think it’s the pilots
I’m not a pilot but did they not stall and that’s why they hit the ground? Huge difference between software flying the plane into the ground and software causing a stall that leads to a crash.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:08 pm to baldona
I’m by no means sticking up for Boeing. But Ford can’t just say Women driver’s suck and go on a PR campaign against women driver’s. Boeing can’t claim that many countries don’t have the basic requirements they would prefer to fly because that would wreck aviation in many countries.
Boeing could have said ‘if the pilots turn off all the software and just fly the plane old school then everyone likely survives’. But that’s not the best PR nor again good for worldwide airlines.
Boeing could have said ‘if the pilots turn off all the software and just fly the plane old school then everyone likely survives’. But that’s not the best PR nor again good for worldwide airlines.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:17 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
That’s great until you have an emergency like these clowns did and you see the predicable result. An American pilot has much better critical thinking skills and is not afraid to manually take the airplane. Foreign pilots are trained to press buttons not to pilot.
Plant baws can have emergencies too where they need to take control of operations. The ultimate plant baws, nuke plant senior reactor operators have far more at stake in these situations than pilots.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:25 pm to baldona
quote:
Boeing could have said ‘if the pilots turn off all the software and just fly the plane old school then everyone likely survives’. But that’s not the best PR nor again good for worldwide airlines.
But you can't just "turn off the software" the software is there because the aircraft's aerodynamics are such that you need the fly by wire system to manage it. It is the result of taking a 1960s design with hery slender JT8D engines and jacking it up and placing higher and higher bypass engines on it. Now the engines have to be placed so far forward that it affects the aircrafts stability. If you had to purely hand fly the aircraft you might be even more fricked.
Look at the 737 Classics (two generations before the MAX). Notice the flat bottom of the engine? That is because Boeing had to move the electronics package to a spot above the engine in order to maintain ground clearance. IN each subsequent upgrade the engines got larger and required additional aerodynamic adjustments. None of which made the aircraft any more stable.
Original 737
737 Classic
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:33 pm to SM6
quote:
But you can't just "turn off the software"
You can turn MCAS off in two ways. On one, it restarts after a few seconds on the other it doesn't.
In both crashes pilots weren't experienced, one had no simulator training and a combination of pilot error and faulty systems doomed them.
Neither were to blame, but both were to blame.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 12:55 pm to RogerTheShrubber
Fair,
But MCAS is one element of a complex software suite.
I’m not sure they have published final reports in the cause of the crash. I’d be hesitant to call it pilot error yet. Especially if the error was not completing a task that Boeing never mandated in its training for the aircraft it manufactured.
But MCAS is one element of a complex software suite.
I’m not sure they have published final reports in the cause of the crash. I’d be hesitant to call it pilot error yet. Especially if the error was not completing a task that Boeing never mandated in its training for the aircraft it manufactured.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:10 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Captain Had the Flu and Copilot Was a Sub
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:Boeing never revealed the existence of MCAS until after the Lion Air crash. How were they supposed to know how to turn off something they didn’t (and couldn’t) know existed?
You can turn MCAS off in two ways. On one, it restarts after a few seconds on the other it doesn't.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:33 pm to baldona
quote:No, MCAS is an anti-stall device that pushes the plane’s nose down. The problem is these planes weren’t stalling. Essentially the computer overrid the pilot inputs and drove them into the ground.
I’m not a pilot but did they not stall and that’s why they hit the ground? Huge difference between software flying the plane into the ground and software causing a stall that leads to a crash.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:43 pm to Jackie Chan
quote:
That may be true in this case, but Boeing's shite is stilled messed up.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 1:56 pm to Cold Drink
quote:
Essentially the computer overrid the pilot inputs and drove them into the ground.
Only if the pilot didn't understand the procedures to overcome. Which was the case in both flights.
These problems weren't new, other pilots had encountered and safely landed.
You're trying to put blame solely on the aircraft and that's not the case.
This post was edited on 10/27/19 at 1:59 pm
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:33 pm to Tiger Roux
quote:
It has been stated in other threads that Boeing shifted a lot of engineering to low cost countries that have little if any experience with aerospace engineering.
Want a dirty little secret: Its not just Boeing...
Posted on 10/27/19 at 2:34 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
quote:
Boeing is the most reputable company in this sector and frankly the only company I would trust my life to.
You really have no idea how shady the Aerospace Engineering business is
Posted on 10/27/19 at 3:11 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
Lion Air is a safety disaster. Poorly trained pilots and mechanics. Still, the night before, this same ship, on it's last leg of the day, had the same MCAS problem occur on departure. The PIC deactivated all automatic systems and flew the plane manually and completed the leg without diverting. The Captain logged a maintenance request and nothing was done.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 3:27 pm to SM6
quote:
the flat bottom of the engine?
quote:
in order to maintain ground clearance
that was because of the physical size of the newer high-bypass engines,
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:07 pm to jeff5891
quote:Poor pilot response to a mechanical failure that should have been written up on previous flights.
What caused the emergency?
Boeing's system responded correctly. The pilot responded incorrectly despite training records indicating they were proficient.
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:14 pm to OleWarSkuleAlum
The problem isn't confined to 737 Max's: Qantas 72
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:17 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
The problem isn't confined to 737 Max's: Qantas 72
those "re-creations" always kill me, and more than a few of the ones I've seen are wrong
Posted on 10/27/19 at 4:19 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Of all the military and civilian pilots I’ve flown with over the years, Army aviators are by far the least competent on average.
Yeah pilots who are proficient at flying inside of 3 discs, landing to 0/0, and gun from <1000m are terrible!!!
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