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Started By
Message
re: New York Times photojournalist goes to Venezuela: pretty incredible pics
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:05 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Are you saying socialism is better?
No. Socialism is a failed model. It's ridiculous to advocate for it. However, there is a difference between socialism, which entails public ownership of the means of production, and social democracy.
Given the drivel I read on the OT and Poli board, I'm not surprised. The average poster on this site is depressingly ignorant.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:12 am to Zappas Stache
quote:
Venezuala does not have a socialist government. Its more of a marxist dictator.
Marxism leads to socialism. Socialism leads to Communism. Communism leads to death. Go to the Marxist side, you must not. Mmmmmmmmm...
quote:
the politicians you refer too are embracing social democracy, not socialism. Social democracy is more like what Sweden has.
First, Bernie literally has said he supports "democratic socialism." Ask him what the difference between that and socialism is: "Huge." Or, some dribble about eating the rich; top one percent, wealth of the bottom 90 percent, etc. neverminding that our poor are richer and have a better standard of living than the poor in places that have much less income inequality like, oh I don't know...Venezuela.
Second, the Nordic countries have many/largely socialist programs, but their economies are capitalist. Their programs are buttressed by the open markets.
Third, as for your definition of "social democracy," the words "economic and social interventions to promote social justice" say it all. What are "interventions"? Government regulation of the open market? That's fascism. Affirmative action programs? At some point, we will recognize those as simply racist. "Social" justice is a perversion of justice; it is an attempted rectification of perceived wrongs for a group based on groups. It presumes things about groups based on characteristics of the group, namely...race, sexual orientation, or gender. Sounds pretty racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. to me.
People forget or ignore that there are risks to living in a free society, and that in this country you have the right to be a dick. The market will reward accordingly (see the lunch counter protests that worked). The reward of a free society outweighs the risks. Leftists have too little faith in individuals and communities and too much faith in big government. That, or they're just power grabbing leeches. Or both. When you end up having your people literally starve to death in the streets, however, "What difference, at that point, will it make?"
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:15 am to reddy tiger
quote:
social democracy.
Given the drivel I read on the OT and Poli board, I'm not surprised. The average poster on this site is depressingly ignorant.
So you are in favor of reducing our social benefits per capita, increasing taxes on the lower classes, and deregulating industry across the board?
The problem is that what then left envisions “social democracy” to be in the Scandinavian countries and what their systems of government and economics actually are, are very separate things.
But please continue to throw the term “ignorant” around.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:20 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
So you are in favor of reducing our social benefits per capita, increasing taxes on the lower classes, and deregulating industry across the board?
Not sure how you came to this conclusion. I'm a capitalist and think our current level of social welfare is sufficient, if not overly burdensome. I can hold that opinion, understand the meaning of words, and recognize how ignorant people are- All at the same time. I can even chew gum while I'm doing it.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:25 am to reddy tiger
quote:
Given the drivel I read on the OT and Poli board, I'm not surprised. The average poster on this site is depressingly ignorant.
Yet the post you were agreeing with was wrong.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:27 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Yet the post you were agreeing with was wrong.
How so? I'd hate to remain ignorant myself.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:28 am to EarlyCuyler3
quote:Even if this is your argument. You agree that the US's involvement in creating the Socalist State of Venezuela was an attempt to destroy their country/economy
Guess which country has meddled in South America the last 50 years and put all these things in motion.
This post was edited on 11/30/18 at 9:39 am
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:33 am to TigerDeacon
When Maduro can't feed his military consistently, that's when you'll see mass uprsing.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:37 am to Barbellthor
quote:
Third, as for your definition of "social democracy," the words "economic and social interventions to promote social justice" say it all. What are "interventions"? Government regulation of the open market? That's fascism. Affirmative action programs? At some point, we will recognize those as simply racist. "Social" justice is a perversion of justice; it is an attempted rectification of perceived wrongs for a group based on groups. It presumes things about groups based on characteristics of the group, namely...race, sexual orientation, or gender. Sounds pretty racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. to me.
Well I will give it to the lefties that take advantage of putting in nuggets where they can. Ie...Adding LGBT protections into the new USMCA. Not the place for it, and we are getting duped. Same thing many large companies are doing as part of their deal to move to a new city. Toyota did it to the city of plano. Forcing a major left wing anti-Christian belief down the throat of a very Christian county/city. Without having the right to know it as it's hidden. Which is funny how all these things have to be hidden to get thru.
This post was edited on 11/30/18 at 9:40 am
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:40 am to reddy tiger
quote:
How so? I'd hate to remain ignorant myself.
It referred to Socialism as a form of government, when it's not. It's an economic system. You can have many types of government with different kinds of economies.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:47 am to reddy tiger
quote:
I can hold that opinion
Your opinion is fundamentally incorrect.
quote:
understand the meaning of words
You, apparently, don't.
quote:
and recognize how ignorant people are
That old saying about stones and glass houses.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:49 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
referred to Socialism as a form of government, when it's not. It's an economic system. You can have many types of government with different kinds of economies
Meh. That's a nitpicky criticism. I think my broader point still stands.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:54 am to reddy tiger
quote:
Meh. That's a nitpicky criticism.
Confusing macro systems is hardly "nitpicky"
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:56 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
Your opinion is fundamentally incorrect
You disagree that current social welfare policies are sufficient if not overly burdensome? Are you sure you're not a socialist?
The rest of your reply is ignorant drivel. Go study.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 9:58 am to reddy tiger
quote:
You disagree that current social welfare policies are sufficient if not overly burdensome?
I never held that as my opinion.
quote:
Are you sure you're not a socialist?
Positive because I actually know what that term entails.
quote:
The rest of your reply is ignorant drivel. Go study.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:06 am to Antonio Moss
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:09 am to reddy tiger
quote:
Meh. That's a nitpicky criticism. I think my broader point still stands.
That socialism is an economic system?
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:11 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
socialism is an economic system
By definition, socialism has to be enforced by government.
This post was edited on 11/30/18 at 10:13 am
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:20 am to kywildcatfanone
quote:
This is what the dems want here. Beware.
That's absolute horseshite. Nobody wants authoritarian dictatorships like Venezuela, Cuba, North Korea, etc. Second nobody is advocating for actual socialism. The term has been thrown around loosely by people on the left so much it's basically ignored. What they're asking for is a social democracy. There are some socialist ideas but it doesn't call for abolishing free markets or capitalism.
Posted on 11/30/18 at 10:26 am to reddy tiger
quote:
By definition, socialism has to be enforced by government.
Correct, as does ever economic system. But a democratic/republic form of government can elect to implement a socialist economic scheme.
This is actually what Marx envisioned.
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