re: New York Times - Captain Crozier Is a Hero

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The extent of COVID proliferation wasn't fully understood when they made the Vietnam port call. According to the original SF Chronicle story "at the time there were only 16 coronavirus cases in northern Vietnam and the port was in the central part of the country."

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They made the port call on March 5th you dumbass! Every single headline off of Pravda...I mean CNN was corona virus related CNN Home Page March 5th

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Every sailor on the ship IS serving and had the Captain's back. How do you reconcile that?

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Because they have no idea the job requirements of a Carrier Captain. The guy completely violated several tried and true command requirements.

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But let's lockdown members of the all volunteer force anytime theres a minor risk. It's that kinda overly risk averse thinking that has troops frequently put on restrictions and confined to base etc... Leaders have to strike a balance between mitigating off duty risks and preserving morale, good order and discipline. Very easy to pass judgement weeks later and lay the blame from your vantage point.

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What branch did you serve in? You do realize that a nuclear powered aircraft carrier is a national level strategic asset right? Maybe he had legitimate concerns but does that negate his oath to gods order and discipline by going behind his bosses back, who has a stateroom right down the hall from his, use an unsecured email and CC over 20 people who had absolutely no reason to be involved in the decision process?

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When I was in ROTC at the Citadel we had these type of leadership discussions on a fairly frequent basis. The question boils down to where do you allegiances lie, to your chain of command or to your men. On one hand, you are obligated to follow orders (well defend the constitution per your oath of office), while on the other hand you are obligated to protect the soldiers or sailors under your command from undue harm. One could argue that this virus is an enemy of the state which you swore an oath to defend our country against. While Capt Crozier defied the UCOMJ by distributing a memo that he was not supposed to, you could also argue that the ultimate show of leadership is to risk ones life or career to protect those you are in charge of. As already posted in this thread, unless you've experienced it, most folks do not understand how confining the conditions inside a Navy ship really are. It's an environment where the virus could spread, rapidly. One very basic concept of leadership. particularly military leadership, is that of Accountability. For example, the 3 cornerstones of Marine Corps leadership are Authority, Accountability, Responsibility. Former Navy SEAL Jocko Willink calls is "Extreme ownership". or the practice of owning everything in your world. This is exactly what Capt Crozier is doing. He's risking everything, including his Navy pension for the health and safety of his men. Like it or not, this is a perfect example of true leadership. Folks on here suggesting that he follow orders blindly do have a point. However, there is a difference between a leader and a follower. While being a good follower is necessary in a military environment, it is not leadership. In wartime the military preaches that one the ground commanders frequently have the ability to adjust attack plans on the fly to counteract the fluidity of a dynamic and changing battlefield. The field commander has the most intimate knowledge of the current situation and having to run orders up the chain of command could/would take too long given the speed that things happen in battle. How is this situation different? Captain Crozier was the commander closest to the situation. He could see how rapidly the situation was deteriorating. He made a call, at his own expense, to protect as many of his men as he could. He was willing to take personal risk in the process. While I won't go as far as to call him a "hero", I think he made a fine leadership decision based on the situation he found himself in. If a news outlet other than the NYT had made the call many on here would have a different opinion of the situation.

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Great write up but you failed to answer if Crozier Needed to send an email (bypassing his boss that has a stateroom on the same aircraft carrier) via unsecured means and CC over 20 people that are not in the “need to know”?

Oh btw, what company and year did you graduate? El CID Tango Co class of 1994 checking in!

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Great write up but you failed to answer if Crozier Needed to send an email (bypassing his boss that has a stateroom on the same aircraft carrier) via unsecured means and CC over 20 people that are not in the “need to know”?

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Why do you think this was his first communication? I'd be willing to bet he had tried multiple times. I'd imagine he got a lot of "we are monitoring the situation, continue to update us" from his chain.

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I wouldn't jump to any conclusion that UCMJ was violated.

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Using an unsecured email and CC people without the need to know about combat readiness is absolutely a violation of the UCMJ....which has been discussed by SecNav and the CoJC.

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He wasn't fired for leaking to press directly.

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We won’t know the exact facts until the investigation is complete....however, he lost the trust and confidence of his superiors. Anyone that has ever held a commission knows you serve “at the pleasure”. If he had beef with his boss and felt his concerns were falling on deaf ears and thus sent it then he has to accept the consequences.

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Why do you think this was his first communication? I'd be willing to bet he had tried multiple times. I'd imagine he got a lot of "we are monitoring the situation, continue to update us" from his chain.

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Doesn’t matter. His job as a Carrier Captain is to keep his national level strategic asset combat read and never violate OpSec. I had to make several very tough decisions, in war and peace, that put the lives of my troops in harms way in order to complete the units tasking. Did I enjoy it and loose sleep? Yes and some still haunt me today but it is the risk we all accept when we raised our right hand.

I'm not saying OPSEC wasn't violated. I'm asking is this abnormal communication? Violation of OPSEC is super flimsy and I'm not sure that this is "out of the norm." I can point to probably thousands of OPSEC violations today on any form of media. I've dealt with large humanitarian response events, wartime asset movement, and many public affairs events, in a HQ environment, and a tactical environment. The line between what is classified and what is open source isn't clear. Hanging what might be normal communication as an OPSEC violation makes me wonder.

The fact is many email communications regarding any large event is CC'd to dozens of people. It's a fact of life in today's military and something that isn't unusual at all. In fact, email communication without a CC to an org box, OPR org box, branch chief, exec, etc. would probably be a personal communication.

I cannot speak to normal Navy communications, but OPSEC in a peacetime carrier movement, status, was likely violated by hundreds of the crew members on the boat, by facebook posts, emails home, phone calls, etc.

I still think the guy did what many would have in the similar situation. I applaud him for making the tough call and sacrificing his future. I've seen it happen to a few good commanders, going to bat for his troops, in wartime and peacetime. Easier to just be a yes-man and it's what the military is producing in leadership.

My mistake 5 Mar was Mardi Gras 2019.

A lot had changed since 25 Feb but still no consensus at that point about how high risk was in nations with few infections.