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re: Morganza Spillway may or may not open for a 3rd time -- lack of clear info from ACoE

Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:26 pm to
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91838 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:26 pm to
quote:

Here is where the rub comes in. Back in 2016, because of some reason the feds did not reimburse the levee districts for some of the work. So, I guess the districts are taking the position, we are only going put this thing if we really need it.


Yeah I remember some fuss about the funding. Bayou Chene project makes that moot once it's up.
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78443 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:29 pm to
quote:

You do realize that with controlled flooding you can slow the pace and take strain off of the levees


Riiiiight. Where is the water going to go though?
Posted by Thib-a-doe Tiger
Member since Nov 2012
36765 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:32 pm to
quote:


Riiiiight. Where is the water going to go though?



Back into the river at a later time
Posted by fightin tigers
Downtown Prairieville
Member since Mar 2008
78443 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:36 pm to
I guess I just don't follow where you expect to store a volume of water that would make a difference.

The volume through those spillways is immense.
This post was edited on 5/22/19 at 11:37 pm
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91838 posts
Posted on 5/22/19 at 11:43 pm to
quote:


I guess I just don't follow where you expect to store a volume of water that would make a difference.

The volume through those spillways is immense.



Yeah there isn't really any way for upper river flood controls to help in LA. Things like the Madrid floodway only help places upstream, for example.
Posted by WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
1968 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:12 am to
Tucked away in the info about this Morganza opening is this scary nugget:

quote:

the corps believes the overtopping might occur even before the river reaches a flow speed of 1.5 million cubic feet along the structure, which is the usual trigger for opening gates.


That is a big deal. The level of the river is higher that expected for a given flowrate. This is due to sedimentation and the riverbed getting higher while levees and surrounding structures settle due to subsistence.
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:19 am to
Sleeve of Wizard,

This isn’t going to get any better either.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61723 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:29 am to
If they are so worried about it, why would they wait until June 2nd to open it?
I’m guessing it’s not all that bad
Posted by TDsngumbo
Member since Oct 2011
50795 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:29 am to
quote:

Tucked away in the info about this Morganza opening is this scary nugget:

quote:
the corps believes the overtopping might occur even before the river reaches a flow speed of 1.5 million cubic feet along the structure, which is the usual trigger for opening gates.

Where did you read this?
Posted by WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
1968 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:32 am to
Exactly! The more I learn about what is happening to the river and the controls we have in place - and how they are becoming more and more inadequate year after year due to sedimentation - I am alarmed nothing is really being done to handle this long term. This is only going to get worse every decade. I am not an expert but it seems there are only a few options:

1.) Dredge the river all the way to the gulf like nothing has never been dredged in the history of mankind. Lower the riverbed somehow, in other words.

2.) Continue to build and reinforce levees and control structures higher and higher. Possibly even build redundant structures as backups. This seems like a risky path forward, but is a possible way to deal with the problem.

3.) Allow the river to go down the Atchafalaya in a controlled but permanent manner. This seems like the inevitable outcome and lowest initial cost (but likely the highest long term cost to society).
Posted by WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
1968 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:33 am to
Posted by jimbeam
University of LSU
Member since Oct 2011
75703 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:40 am to
I expect option 2 to most likely occur. Option 3 would likely affect trade routes, industry, etc. don’t expect to see this without a monumental fight from the public. Option 1 would be a TREMENDOUS undertaking but not impossible (theoretically)
Posted by crazyLSUstudent
391 miles away from Tiger Stadium
Member since Mar 2012
6133 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:46 am to
That should be updated. The crest in april/march was 44+ feet.
Posted by WizardSleeve
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2011
1968 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:47 am to
I think option 1 would be the smartest path, but I dont know how if it is even feasible or possible. But it is the root cause of the problem, the sediment accumulating on the river bed. Remove sediment from Natchez to Port Eads by several feet deep (or more) and the problem is solved.
Posted by StTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2008
3181 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:48 am to
First they will waste money on option 2

When they realize that the river still wants to divert and that option 3 might still happen, state and fed money will pour in for option 1
This post was edited on 5/23/19 at 8:49 am
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42643 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:52 am to
quote:


That is a big deal. The level of the river is higher that expected for a given flowrate. This is due to sedimentation and the riverbed getting higher while levees and surrounding structures settle due to subsistence.



Not to hijack this thread, but this same phenomena is demonstrated on the Amite River but on a smaller scale.

There have been numerous floods since the 50s the last time the Amite was dredged.

Consequently it takes less rainfall to fill up the basin after each flood event, yet to the best of my knowledge there are no plans to clean and dredge the Amite.
Posted by fillmoregandt
OTM
Member since Nov 2009
14368 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:53 am to
A diversion above Memphis that directs water east toward the Tenn-Tom waterway would take pressure off by diverting water out of the MS River and into to the Mobile Bay basin.
Posted by Mac
Member since Nov 2007
14803 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 8:54 am to



Just a cool pic.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
41081 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 9:05 am to
quote:

I think option 1 would be the smartest path, but I dont know how if it is even feasible or possible.


At this point, I don't know. But if we had been keeping it clear all along, with annual maintenance dredging, just like we do south of NOLA, then it would be very possible.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
58521 posts
Posted on 5/23/19 at 9:07 am to
quote:

catastrophic flooding within the floodway.
am i missing what they are trying to say? A floodway is supposed to flood when the spillway is open.
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