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May 1, 1942 - Japan: One Battle From Victory?
Posted on 5/1/21 at 9:26 am
Posted on 5/1/21 at 9:26 am
quote:
Now that Burma and control of the Burma Road have fallen to the Japanese, can anyone stop them? The Allies are thinking about maybe using the Solomon Islands as a base to try and fight back but to do that they'll need control of the Coral Sea, as both sides send warships there with the Japanese plan to take Port Moresby. The Allies are aware of this since they have the advantage of being able to read a substantial part of Japan's radio traffic. It is a week of foreshadowing not just there, but also as the Allies send ships to take Madagascar from the Vichy French and the Soviets prepare to launch an offensive on the Eastern Front.
YouTube - World War Two
9
Posted on 5/1/21 at 9:36 am to RollTide1987
Would we have won the Revolutionary War or WWII without spies/spying? No. Crazy to think how the sacrafice of so few, and their capabilities of Espionage, changed the course of history
Posted on 5/1/21 at 9:43 am to RollTide1987
Enjoyed that, appreciate it!
Posted on 5/1/21 at 9:47 am to RollTide1987
Love these threads! Thanks
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:05 am to IT_Dawg
quote:
Would we have won the Revolutionary War or WWII without spies/spying?
No chance.
Midway is arguably the most decisive battle in the history of naval warfare. It was won because of codebreaking. If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:07 am to orangebeach38
I enjoy them too.
My dad wan in the Battle for the Solomon Islands, but he didn't arrive until 1943 when we took over New Georgia Island.
My dad wan in the Battle for the Solomon Islands, but he didn't arrive until 1943 when we took over New Georgia Island.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:12 am to VADawg
quote:I’ll grant you that a complete US defeat at Midway would have set us back a couple of years in the Pacific, but once we got rolling industrially (by ‘44), we were unstoppable.
If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
And that’s only considering conventional weapons, not nuclear.
It would have taken two or three more years but from a scale standpoint our economy would allow our forces to overwhelm the Pacific theater with ships and planes and we had the folks to do it too.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:14 am to RollTide1987
My grandpa fought in Burma with Wingate's Chindits. He and my uncle (his son in law) had lots to talk about after my uncle got back from fighting in Vietnam. Only amongst themselves, though.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 10:21 am to soccerfüt
quote:
would have taken two or three more years but from a scale standpoint our economy would allow our forces to overwhelm the Pacific theater with ships and planes and we had the folks to do it too.
If Japan wins at Midway and threatens Hawaii the Europe first strategy goes out the window and the Pacific gets our full attention.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 11:10 am to Jim Rockford
Really enjoy these threads. Thanks for starting them.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 11:30 am to Jim Rockford
True. If we had lost at Midway it would have prolonged the war a couple years and the Soviets may have had more of a stake in Europe since we probably would not have had the capacity to invade at Normandy while fighting a fierce defensive war in the pacific.
Love exploring alternative scenarios and wild to think of a few decisions here and there could alter millions of lives
Love exploring alternative scenarios and wild to think of a few decisions here and there could alter millions of lives
Posted on 5/1/21 at 11:35 am to VADawg
quote:
No chance.
Midway is arguably the most decisive battle in the history of naval warfare. It was won because of codebreaking. If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
I think that if Japan had invaded Hawaii after the attack on Pearl, that things may have gone quite differently...
Posted on 5/1/21 at 11:47 am to VADawg
quote:
Midway is arguably the most decisive battle in the history of naval warfare. It was won because of codebreaking. If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
No chance. If Japan sunk every CV at Midway, the US would have replaced all those losses with newer carriers and much more in less than a year. Japan never had a chance. Really, the US Navy Bureau of Ordnance is more responsible for how long the Pacific War lasted with their criminal refusal to admit deficiencies with the Mark XIV torpedo than anything Japan did.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 11:58 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
No chance. If Japan sunk every CV at Midway, the US would have replaced all those losses with newer carriers and much more in less than a year. Japan never had a chance. Really, the US Navy Bureau of Ordnance is more responsible for how long the Pacific War lasted with their criminal refusal to admit deficiencies with the Mark XIV torpedo than anything Japan did.
I'd say FDR's willingness to invest in a two-pronged assault, because MacArthur just had to have an operational command, did a lot more to undercut our efforts.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:08 pm to RollTide1987
God bless these service men and women, they understood what america stood for and represented.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:15 pm to VADawg
quote:
Midway is arguably the most decisive battle in the history of naval warfare. It was won because of codebreaking. If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
I would add that Divine Providence played a role also.
Codebreaking got the US in the right place for the battle, but so many things over the course of the battle had to align just right for us to pull it off, it makes it hard to dismiss the hand of God moving some chess pieces.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:25 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
No chance. If Japan sunk every CV at Midway, the US would have replaced all those losses with newer carriers and much more in less than a year. Japan never had a chance. Really, the US Navy Bureau of Ordnance is more responsible for how long the Pacific War lasted with their criminal refusal to admit deficiencies with the Mark XIV torpedo than anything Japan did.
The issue was what could have happened in that one year.
No, the Japs couldn’t have conquered us, but when you consider what they did ftom Dec of 4- to June of 42, about half of a year, what could they have done in a year with our carriers gone.
That’s the question,
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:33 pm to VADawg
quote:
No chance.
Midway is arguably the most decisive battle in the history of naval warfare. It was won because of codebreaking. If we don't win Midway, Japan runs roughshod over the Pacific for as long as they want to.
You’re right. Without the code breakers giving Nimitz the intel he needed to put our carriers at the exact right spot at the exact right time, Midway would have fallen and very likely Hawaii would have been next. What was left of our Pacific Fleet would have been forced to fallback to the west coast. And it would most likely be 1944 before we would be in any position to think about beginning a push across the Pacific. The war in the Pacific could have dragged on until 1947 or even longer had we lost at Midway.
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:39 pm to Darth_Vader
Many (most?) of the Japanese military leadership wasn't in agreement with the Midway operation as it was seen as having minimal upside while being very difficult for them to take advantage of or even supply.
Hawaii is even farther away.
Even if they had taken Midway it is doubtful they would have tried for Hawaii. It would have ended up an isolated outpost like many other Pacific islands.
eta-At no time did Japan have the ability to win the war. They gambled we would give up. When that didn't happen it was only a matter of time.
Hawaii is even farther away.
Even if they had taken Midway it is doubtful they would have tried for Hawaii. It would have ended up an isolated outpost like many other Pacific islands.
eta-At no time did Japan have the ability to win the war. They gambled we would give up. When that didn't happen it was only a matter of time.
This post was edited on 5/1/21 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 5/1/21 at 12:49 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
agreement with the Midway operation as it was seen as having minimal upside while being very difficult for them to take advantage of or even supply.
Hawaii is even farther away.
Even if they had taken Midway it is doubtful they would have tried for Hawaii. It would have ended up an isolated outpost like many other Pacific islands.
eta-At no time did Japan have the ability to win the war. They gambled we would give up. When that didn't happen it was only a matter of time.
You make good points. But I’ll disagree for one reason, one you mentioned in fact; Their gamble that we would give up. They knew their only hope of winning the war was to knock us out before our massive industrial advantage could be mobilized. I think had they won at Midway, they’d see Hawaii as being vulnerable. And they’d realize they by taking Hawaii it would essentially give them complete control of the Pacific. This, in their view, would put Japan in a sufficient position of strength to come to a advantageous settled peace with America.
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