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Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:29 pm to CitizenK
quote:
The real issue with GOP was, "Where is the fricking plan for Ukraine to win?" though it was put more politely than actually meant.
We will see if people buy that in coming years...
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:31 pm to Lee B
quote:
We will see if people buy that in coming years.
Only if historical record is altered to suit Democrat agenda.
All of this has been noted in this thread in 2022. Some of you are just Johnny Come Latelys and have zero clue
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:32 pm to CitizenK
quote:
The Biden Admin has NEVER shown the plan for Ukraine to win, NEVER, NOT ONCE, NIL, NONE, SQUAT, ZERO
There isn't one. "Wait until Russia gets tired" isn't a plan.
Ukraine is at least trying to tire them out faster, and should have been allowed to strike inside Russia to begin with. Allowing it at this point with it being clear its the US lifting restrictions is what I'm against, not necessarily the act itself.
Like I said a few weeks ago, at the beginning of the war we should have given them the top tier cuts of pork and publicly said "We just gave them the weapons, outside of war crimes what they decide to do with them is on them". With the route they chose to go its too clear of an escalation and its seen as greenlit by us. You do it my way from the beginning and we can at least act like we aren't ok with it even if we are.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:34 pm to CitizenK
quote:
All of this has been noted in this thread in 2022. Some of you are just Johnny Come Latelys and have zero clue
I've been reading this thread since the start...
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:38 pm to Lee B
And you held your tongue til 6 months ago or so??
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:40 pm to ticklechain
My account got suspended for being an "alter" a few days after January 6, 2021 by one of the pissy PT admins. I just got reinstated 6 months ago or so... checked the thread and had the option to reply.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:41 pm to cypher
quote:
UNITED NATIONS, Sept 24 (Reuters) - Iran has brokered ongoing secret talks between Russia and Yemen's Houthi rebels to transfer anti-ship missiles to the militant group
And people question why so many of us hate Russia.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:41 pm to Lee B
US House Speaker Mike Johnson demands that Ukrainian President Zelensky immediately fire Ukraine's Ambassador to the US.
Meanwhile Zelenskyy is meeting with Biden and Harris tomorrow.
Trump will not agree to a meeting with Zelenskyy but meets with Orban and Netanyahu.
Meanwhile Zelenskyy is meeting with Biden and Harris tomorrow.
Trump will not agree to a meeting with Zelenskyy but meets with Orban and Netanyahu.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.This post was edited on 9/25/24 at 3:46 pm
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:44 pm to doubleb
quote:
And people question why so many of us hate Russia.
They certainly aren't the Good Guys in any current geo-political events.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:46 pm to VolSquatch
[quote]There isn't one. "Wait until Russia gets tired" isn't a plan. [/quote
The initial plan was to survive as a nation.
Then they saw Russia wasn’t all they were cracked up to be so they decided to counterattack and reclaim large parts of Ukraine.
Now they are doing two things; trying to stay where they are while extending the war in hopes of forcing Russia to give it up as we finally did in Vietnam.
I can’t see Ukraine driving Russia completely out ever. Not if they have the willpower to stay.
The initial plan was to survive as a nation.
Then they saw Russia wasn’t all they were cracked up to be so they decided to counterattack and reclaim large parts of Ukraine.
Now they are doing two things; trying to stay where they are while extending the war in hopes of forcing Russia to give it up as we finally did in Vietnam.
I can’t see Ukraine driving Russia completely out ever. Not if they have the willpower to stay.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:52 pm to doubleb
quote:
The initial plan was to survive as a nation.
Most experience military observers like Gen Jack Keane, thought that Russia would overrun Ukraine in days or weeks then after say a decade of a Ukrainian Underground, leave Ukraine out of frustration like they did in Afghanistan.
Unlike most Europe, Ukraine has gun laws not unlike most states in the US. Those citizens with their own weapons helped quite a bit. A Florida gun dealer which was already exporting AR's to Ukraine made serious bank the first several months of the war as AR's were all but flying out their doors to Ukrainian private citizens buying them up
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:53 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
"Wait until Russia gets tired" isn't a plan.
That was actually THE plan the CIA put in motion in Afghanistan under the Carter administration to destroy the Soviet Union.
It worked, hand in hand with other things.
"Wait until America gets tired" was the plan Al Qaeda embarked on by striking us on 9-11, hoping we would invade the Middle East, chasing them all over the place and causing the entire region to turn on us.
That one didn't work... though we did take the bait and overstepped with Iraq and did ourselves some harm.
"Wait until America and the West gets tired" is Putin's strategy in Ukraine, and beyond.
Atlantic Council: Putin is convinced he can outlast the West and win in Ukraine
Posted on 9/25/24 at 3:55 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
at the beginning of the war we should have given them the top tier cuts of pork and publicly said "We just gave them the weapons, outside of war crimes what they decide to do with them is on them".
I have never disagreed with this approach.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:00 pm to Lee B
quote:
at the beginning of the war we should have given them the top tier cuts of pork and publicly said "We just gave them the weapons, outside of war crimes what they decide to do with them is on them".
I have never disagreed with this approach.
Ok but you are not in a position of power. Joe Biden and Jake Sullivan are in a position of power and they are not in agreement with this approach. Which is a shame because fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian dies is not working. If we gave Ukraine what it asked for and let them use it as they saw fit then they might stand a fighting chance of outlasting Russia.
This post was edited on 9/25/24 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:07 pm to doubleb
quote:
trying to stay where they are while extending the war in hopes of forcing Russia to give it up as we finally did in Vietnam.
and as Russia did in Afghanistan... and as I guess we did in Afghanistan
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:10 pm to WeeWee
quote:
Ok but you are not in a position of power. Joe Biden and Jake Sullivan are in a position of power and they are not in agreement with this approach. Which is a shame because fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian dies is not working. If we gave Ukraine what it asked for and let them use it as they saw fit then they might stand a fighting chance of outlasting Russia.
Biden and Sullivan and will be gone in 3 months, more or less...
If Harris wins, someone here said the person she has tapped to replace Sullivan is much more aggressive on Ukraine.
If Trump wins... I dunno what they're going to do. Do you?
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:20 pm to Lee B
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:43 pm to Lee B
quote:
If Trump wins... I dunno what they're going to do. Do you?
My guess is that Trump will offer Putin a carrot or the big stick. I don't think Putin will go for the carrot and Trump won't go timid on the big stick.
Posted on 9/25/24 at 4:50 pm to John Barron
I believe that's a likely scenario... at some point, there's nothing left of those villages but rubble. If Russia runs out of artillery shells that might change.
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