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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:26 pm to mattfromnj
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:26 pm to mattfromnj
quote:
Neither side is interested in negotiations. The Russians think they have all the momentum and the Ukr government doesn't want to give up territory, which realistically any negotiated settlement would have them losing at least some territory. So the stalemate continues.
No matter what happens, win or lose, Ukraine is going to lose territory.
This whole deal results from the CIA and others wanting to push buttons in Russia, and possibly get regime change.
Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be a member of NATO, just like we didn’t want Russian missiles in Cuba. If Russia or China wanted to build military bases on the Mexican border we’d likewise be pissed.
Time to stop the killing, time to stop wasting money.
2
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:47 pm to ColtRange
David Sacks is a leftist prof in NYC who was dumb (or bought) enough to buy the decades long leftist Sy Hersh article about Nordstream
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:55 pm to RuLSU
quote:
The big sticking point is Russia demanding "neutrality" from Ukraine. Russia's peace requirements: 1) Ukraine must disarm and eliminate its current army 2) Ukraine's current government must resign/quit 3) Russia will oversee the election/implementation of a new government 4) Ukraine may not join EU/NATO now or ever The last point is the non-starter. Ukraine has "joining the EU/moving towards joining the EU" as a staple in their constitution.
All negotiable.
1) That’s not reasonable, can be negotiated out.
2) That’s reasonable, the tee shirt wearing comedian and his crooked cohorts need to go. Quit postponing elections.
3) Not reasonable, can be negotiated out.
4) Joining the EU is fine. No for joining NATO.
This all could’ve been fixed a long time ago, it’s just another example of the CIA and MIC sticking their noses where they don’t belong. Now billions of dollars and untold numbers of lives have been ruined.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 12:58 pm to riverdiver
quote:
Russia doesn’t want Ukraine to be a member of NATO, just like we didn’t want Russian missiles in Cuba. If Russia or China wanted to build military bases on the Mexican border we’d likewise be pissed.
The US and Russia were pushed to the brink because Russia was placing offensive missiles in Cuba. We couldn’t tolerate that.
Where are the offensive NATO missiles now?
The nukes and associated missiles are located in Belgium, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey and at Buchel Air Base in what was West Germany.
There aren’t any in the old Warsaw Pact nations and there was never any talk of putting them in Ukraine. Equating the Cuban situation to the Ukraine situation is not correct. Russian forces remained in Cuba.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:06 pm to riverdiver
quote:
There have already been a couple of windows to negotiate. Britain and the US shot those chances down.
Windows??? Negotiations began over a decade ago. Treaties were signed. Treaties were broken.
Before Russia ratcheted up the war, negotiations were reported to be close, but Putin invaded anyway. He wasn’t after peace, he was after Kiev, Kharkiv and Odessa.
The so called windows you allude to is pure propaganda designed to make you think Russia wants peace. It’s nonsense. It’s out there to undermine the West,
Russian authorities have made it clear. Putin has too. Ukraine is Russia’s.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
Russian authorities have made it clear. Putin has too. Ukraine is Russia’s.
Honestly?
I don’t care either way.
The CIA has been pushing for this, just like they’ve stuck their noses in other countries’ business since the ‘50’s.
If you feel so strongly about it, designate an extra allotment to come from your taxes to pay for Ukrainian official’s Rolls Royces and sports cars.
Or just book a flight over there and ask for a spare rifle.
If they haven’t already been sold on the black market.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:41 pm to riverdiver
farcical post from a farcical poster
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:55 pm to RuLSU
quote:
Hey, any reason you don't post the source?
Like, you post the video, and a news article with the headline/source clipped. Why is that?
The only thing I clipped off was some guys twitter handle.
I literally posted the video with him saying exactly what the headline said. What else are you looking for?
Posted on 3/20/24 at 1:56 pm to riverdiver
quote:
4) Joining the EU is fine. No for joining NATO.
without a NATO membership, russia is free to attack Ukraine again down the road
NATO prevents father attacks
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:11 pm to riverdiver
quote:
I don’t care either way.
But you hzve to weigh in this thread because???
quote:
The CIA has been pushing for this, just like they’ve stuck their noses in other countries’ business since the ‘50’s.
Pushing for what? You have no intelligent comment to make so you throw in the CIA!
quote:
If you feel so strongly about it, designate an extra allotment to come from your taxes to pay for Ukrainian official’s Rolls Royces and sports cars.
I feel strongly about it, and if I could allocate where my taxes would go, I’d send it to Ukraine before I sent it to all the liberal “causes” I help fund. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way.
quote:
Or just book a flight over there and ask for a spare rifle.
I doubt they’d want my help. I’m more valuable here making money and paying taxes.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:17 pm to doubleb
If Ukraine has 300k to 500k dead, then wounded would push the total over one million.
General Krivonos has said deaths are around 500k. Lutsenko said something similar this past fall.
There are a lot of signs that things are seriously bad for them. There was an article back in, August? That said they had around 40k amputees IIRC. The UK had 41k in WW1. The Washington Post published this article recently, talking about the disappearance of fighting age men. Articles like this have been cropping up for a while
LINK
Meanwhile the conscription officers are taking increasingly abusive measures. Rezident wrote this in response to a video of an officer beating an impressed man on the street.
In January the Urkanians said they needed 20k recruits a month to tread water. Now it’s 35k. And the quality of the people they’re pulling in has dropped a lot. Medical deferments don’t appear to functionally exist anymore. They’re also putting women into combat which is bad sign.
Then you have the push for the new mobilization bill.
General Krivonos has said deaths are around 500k. Lutsenko said something similar this past fall.
There are a lot of signs that things are seriously bad for them. There was an article back in, August? That said they had around 40k amputees IIRC. The UK had 41k in WW1. The Washington Post published this article recently, talking about the disappearance of fighting age men. Articles like this have been cropping up for a while
quote:
Few men of fighting age are left in this village in southwest Ukraine, and those who remain fear they will be drafted at any moment.
LINK
Meanwhile the conscription officers are taking increasingly abusive measures. Rezident wrote this in response to a video of an officer beating an impressed man on the street.
quote:
When will the Ombudsman react? Deputies continue to remain unanimously silent about the unlimited mobilization, and control bodies have ceased to exist altogether. Do we really still live in a democratic Ukraine, for which we are fighting? We are waiting for a statement from the TCC that the Ukrainian beat himself while on drugs... LINK
In January the Urkanians said they needed 20k recruits a month to tread water. Now it’s 35k. And the quality of the people they’re pulling in has dropped a lot. Medical deferments don’t appear to functionally exist anymore. They’re also putting women into combat which is bad sign.
Then you have the push for the new mobilization bill.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:33 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
In January the Urkanians said they needed 20k recruits a month to tread water. Now it’s 35k. And the quality of the people they’re pulling in has dropped a lot. Medical deferments don’t appear to functionally exist anymore. They’re also putting women into combat which is bad sign.
Then you have the push for the new mobilization bill.
And this is exactly why we are hearing Macron talking about putting western troops on the ground.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:34 pm to riverdiver
quote:
The CIA has been pushing for this, just like they’ve stuck their noses in other countries’ business since the ‘50’s.
Ahh, yes. The CIA is the only entity that would ever dare. Certainly not the Soviet KGB or Russian FSB since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:37 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
If Ukraine has 300k to 500k dead, then wounded would push the total over one million.
If Ukraine had that many dead so would Russia, and I don’t believe they do although I believe Russia bring the invader had more.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:38 pm to Buckeye Backer
That makes sense to me
If you decide that Ukraine is losing, and can’t win with the current level of support, you’ve got two choices, accept it, or ante up. And if your industrial base can’t really offer more than its providing now, and if Ukraine has manpower issues, then sending troops is next escalation.
If you decide that Ukraine is losing, and can’t win with the current level of support, you’ve got two choices, accept it, or ante up. And if your industrial base can’t really offer more than its providing now, and if Ukraine has manpower issues, then sending troops is next escalation.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:50 pm to doubleb
quote:
But you hzve to weigh in this thread because???
Pushing for what? You have no intelligent comment to make so you throw in the CIA!
I feel strongly about it, and if I could allocate where my taxes would go, I’d send it to Ukraine before I sent it to all the liberal “causes” I help fund. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that way.
I doubt they’d want my help. I’m more valuable here making money and paying taxes.
I’m weighing in on this thread because I feel like it, just like you’re weighing in. If Ukraine as a country ceased to exist tomorrow or next week it wouldn’t affect my or your life one bit. It’s not worth the billions spent (just a drop in the bucket so far) or the untold numbers of lives affected.
CIA and MIC are most certainly involved from day 1. Denying that reality is silly. Just keep edging us closer to nuclear war, you ok with that?
Send Zelensky a check. He’ll certainly cash it, maybe he’ll buy a different color tee shirt for once. I don’t care about funding liberal “causes” either, but at least it’s being spent here…not wasted in someone else’s war zones.
Yeah, figured you’d turn down the chance to fly over there and ask for a rifle. Ukraine’s of utmost importance to you, until it involves personal sacrifice. But you’ll cheerlead if more US troops are sent over there, right? Let some of our 18 year olds be cannon fodder?
Lots of keyboard commandos here who’ve been playing Call of Duty too long. Guys like you who aren’t happy if we aren’t in constant war with someone.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 2:50 pm to doubleb
quote:
If Ukraine had that many dead so would Russia, and I don’t believe they do although I believe Russia bring the invader had more.
It’s couple of things, one of which is just raw firepower. Russian forces also get better training and more frequent rotations. The Ukrainians also had a large manpower advantage initially, and they weren’t cautious about casualties. They would attack aggressively, and they were willing to take large losses in order to just hold their positions. The Russians by comparison have been very careful about manpower since at least the summer of 22.
This post was edited on 3/20/24 at 4:00 pm
Posted on 3/20/24 at 3:17 pm to riverdiver
quote:
But you’ll cheerlead if more US troops are sent over there, right? Let some of our 18 year olds be cannon fodder?
I highly doubt you’ll find one person in this entire thread who has actually advocated for sending US troops. But somehow we all support it despite posting several times against it
Posted on 3/20/24 at 3:18 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
t’s couple of things, one of which is just raw firepower. Russian forces also get better training and more frequent rotations. The Ukrainians also had a large manpower advantage initially, and they weren’t cautious about casualties. They would attack aggressively, and they were willing to take large losses in order to just hold their positions.
I remember the Russians getting ambushed and destroyed initially around Kiev. I remember the Ukrainians chafing the Russians out of Kharkiv. I remember the Russians getting hung out to dry on the wrong side of the river in Kherson.
I also remember the meat grinder around Bakmuth and now at Adiviika. Both sides lost thousands as the Russians repeatedly attacked dug in positions again and again.
I also read articles of Russian convicts and conscripts getting a few weeks training and a rifle and orders to attack fixed positions. I don’t call that better training. Besides some of the best Russian soldiers were Wagner and we know what happened to them.
Posted on 3/20/24 at 3:58 pm to riverdiver
quote:
Yeah, figured you’d turn down the chance to fly over there and ask for a rifle
Are you s sports handicapper or a financial planner? You seem to have s as unique ability to predict the future. How did hoh know I wasn’t volunteering?
Now go back to being unconcerned.
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