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Message
2
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:34 am to doubleb
Fight fire with fire
Posted on 2/26/24 at 10:40 am to doubleb
quote:
lol, sounds to me the CIA did well.
Agree.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:02 am to RuLSU
quote:
At least once a day, polls are posted that demonstrate that you're flat out wrong.
Here you go, slick.
Washington Examiner
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:24 am to Perfect Circle
Rasmussen, lol.
But it definitely depends on how questions are asked. If you ask people if we should deliver oodles of cash to Zelensky for him to launder, that would likely be a no.
But if you ask people if we should give our older equipment to Ukraine while we buy newer weapons to deter China, you'll get an overwhelming majority.
But it definitely depends on how questions are asked. If you ask people if we should deliver oodles of cash to Zelensky for him to launder, that would likely be a no.
But if you ask people if we should give our older equipment to Ukraine while we buy newer weapons to deter China, you'll get an overwhelming majority.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:32 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But if you ask people if we should give our older equipment to Ukraine while we buy newer weapons to deter China, you'll get an overwhelming majority.
Doesn't Ukraine need shells more than equipment?
Our production capacity (and that of the west's in general) has been exposed to be lacking.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:38 am to cypher
quote:
But the NYT investigation dispelled that version, pointing rather to how “Putin and his advisers misread a critical dynamic.” According to the newspaper: “The CIA didn’t push its way into Ukraine. US officials were often reluctant to fully engage, fearing that Ukrainian officials could not be trusted, and worrying about provoking the Kremlin.”
NYT
The CIA didn’t push its way into Ukraine.
Yes, the CIA is notorious for being bashful about interjecting itself into foreign affairs.
Since we know American media and tech companies have been, in effect, partners with the intelligence community and DOJ, this NYT "investigation" is basically meaningless.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:38 am to No Colors
quote:
The US, Canada, UK, and EU have combined industrial output that is 15x greater than Russia's
quote:
This idea that Russia is some sort of industrial juggernaut is just.....wrong.
One of the hallmarks of the Stalinist era was raw output. And while modern Russia doesn’t produce anything on the scale of that period, they did inherit a large industrial base from the Soviet Union. And while they did experience contraction and a round of government mandated mergers, like we did, they didn’t cut as sharply. The end result is that they’re grossly out producing us.
They can manufacture 3 million rounds of 152mm artillery ammunition a year. Our prewar figure was, 160k a year. Which has increased to 28,000 a month or 336,000 a year.
I’ll come back later with numbers from other areas, but it’s an output problem for us. We produce expensive things in small quantities (except aircraft which we still mass produce) and we have a limited ability to increase production without building new factories.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 11:40 am to VolSquatch
quote:meh
Our production capacity (and that of the west's in general) has been exposed to be lacking.
We may not have our production configured to produce artillery shells but comparing our ability to produce high level items like micro chips, stealth, lasers, etc is so unimaginably ahead that it's not even worth comparing. And that's ultimately what will decide any major conflict that we happen to get involved in
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:08 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
The CIA didn’t push its way into Ukraine.
Well, they leveraged existing cleavages in Ukraine. That’s something we do a really good job of.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:11 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
And that's ultimately what will decide any major conflict that we happen to get involved in
We’re losing this war because we don’t produce enough artillery, artillery ammunition, tanks, and air defense systems, among other things, to sustain Ukraine.
quote:
We may not have our production configured to produce artillery shells but comparing our ability to produce high level items like micro chips, stealth, lasers, etc is so unimaginably ahead that it's not even worth comparing.
I don’t think our bet on precision fire over mass would work in a serious conflict.
This post was edited on 2/26/24 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:13 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:
They can manufacture 3 million rounds of 152mm artillery ammunition a year. Our prewar figure was, 160k a year. Which has increased to 28,000 a month or 336,000 a year.
Russia "claims" to produce 2 million a year between 152 and 122. Not 3 million.
And just the USA will be up to 1 million 155mm per year by May or June.
And that doesn't count S Korea, Japan, UK, the EU, and others who are pitching in.
If Russia was making 3 million 152mm per year, then why did they buy 2 million from North Korea?
I hate it for you that the facts don't fit your narrative.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:15 pm to No Colors
quote:
If Russia was making 3 million 152mm per year, then why did they buy 2 million from North Korea?
They’re maximizing their artillery advantage. And firing presumably as much as possible. It may permit them to focus development resources elsewhere too, but that’s not obvious to me from the outside.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:18 pm to WestCoastAg
quote:
meh
We may not have our production configured to produce artillery shells but comparing our ability to produce high level items like micro chips, stealth, lasers, etc is so unimaginably ahead that it's not even worth comparing. And that's ultimately what will decide any major conflict that we happen to get involved in
Our ability and capacity to Make-thing-go-boom will always be a relevant factor in war.
Stealth and lasers aren't going to do much good if the enemy just uses an EMP or other weapons to disable electronics. But you'll still be able to shoot most guns and artillery.
But for the record, I think we probably still have a higher industrial capacity than Russia even for "rudimentary" things like artillery shells. It just would take longer to ramp up.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:18 pm to Lima Whiskey
Hungary has officially ratified Sweden's NATO membership.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:24 pm to Lima Whiskey
quote:we are losing this war because we have been terrible at giving Ukraine what it actually needs to win this war. Had we given Ukraine F16s and leopards and Abrams, and in numbers, from the get go, this war would be very different
We’re losing this war because we don’t produce enough artillery, artillery ammunition, tanks, and air defense systems, among other things, to sustain Ukraine.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:26 pm to Lima Whiskey
LINK
Here is an informative Forbes article about Russian artillery barrel production. They can't make anywhere near enough barrels internally. They started the war with about 12,500 barrels (mostly on unused towed pieces). They have lost over half of them to counterbattery fire, and just being worn out. (Their theoretical life is about 2000 rounds....but these are old Soviet production items, and the steel mix isn't what it was supposed to be due to corruption and incompetence etc).
So Russia is well over halfway to being out of barrels. And not coincidentally, they are also more than halfway out of tanks and IFVs as well.
Why do you think that the West is slow rolling this whole thing? Because at the two year point we are actually more than halfway home.
Forget the shells and forget the men. Russia will run out of the hardware to wage war way before they get to Kiev. And way before Ukraine throws in the towel. T
We are spending less than .2% of our GDP to keep Ukraine in the fight. The EU is spending about the same. Russia is spending 8% of its GDP to stay in the fight. And it's not making progress.
This war is sustainable for Ukraine and the West. It's not sustainable for Russia. The industrial advantage you speak of simply doesn't exist.
Here is an informative Forbes article about Russian artillery barrel production. They can't make anywhere near enough barrels internally. They started the war with about 12,500 barrels (mostly on unused towed pieces). They have lost over half of them to counterbattery fire, and just being worn out. (Their theoretical life is about 2000 rounds....but these are old Soviet production items, and the steel mix isn't what it was supposed to be due to corruption and incompetence etc).
So Russia is well over halfway to being out of barrels. And not coincidentally, they are also more than halfway out of tanks and IFVs as well.
Why do you think that the West is slow rolling this whole thing? Because at the two year point we are actually more than halfway home.
Forget the shells and forget the men. Russia will run out of the hardware to wage war way before they get to Kiev. And way before Ukraine throws in the towel. T
We are spending less than .2% of our GDP to keep Ukraine in the fight. The EU is spending about the same. Russia is spending 8% of its GDP to stay in the fight. And it's not making progress.
This war is sustainable for Ukraine and the West. It's not sustainable for Russia. The industrial advantage you speak of simply doesn't exist.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 12:53 pm to No Colors
quote:
(Their theoretical life is about 2000 rounds....but these are old Soviet production items, and the steel mix isn't what it was supposed to be due to corruption and incompetence etc).
If Soviet management needed big nails, they would set the quota by weight. If they need small nails, they would set the quota by count. That's how things worked.
Posted on 2/26/24 at 1:02 pm to No Colors
One of the most interesting things about this thread is the two different realities people live in based on if they support giving more aid to Ukraine or not 
Posted on 2/26/24 at 1:18 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
One of the most interesting things about this thread is the two different realities people live in based on if they support giving more aid to Ukraine or not
Insightful
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