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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:00 am to
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42749 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:00 am to
quote:

Look up the Marshall Plan. Relate it to what might have been, had the Clinton Administration been more attuned to bostering a fledgling Russian democracy as opposed to cigar insertions or oval office oral service.


I looked up the Marshall Plan. Russia said nyet to American aid in the late 40s and early 50s. They also prevented Poland, Romania and the other Soviet bloc countries from receiving aid.

Now it’s our fault for not coming up with a plan just for them? It seems to me the old saying of you snooze you lose is applicable here.

Once again you try and shift blame and put it in the US. Why should the US have to bribe Russia to do the right things and be a responsible nation?

Russia opposed us in Korea, Vietnam, the Midfie East, and now they are allied with Iran.
Why would Clinton bail them out when history shows us that they will deal with people like Hitler, Sadat, Mao, the Ayatollah, and Assad.

This post was edited on 2/22/24 at 12:38 pm
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5724 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:04 am to
Russia was also a member of the G8 until they were kicked out. They had a significant GDP.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139724 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:16 am to
quote:

Keep on getting your info from the clueless, bought/paid for, or useful idiot media outlets
Your projection is both silly and revealing.

This is quite simple.
I've cited my sources.
You claim they are "Kremlin Talking Points."
Make your case.
quote:

Keep on getting your info from the clueless, bought/paid for, or useful idiot media outlets




Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139724 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:17 am to
quote:

Russia said nyet to American aid in the late 40s and early 50s.
You are conflating Russia and the USSR
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:18 am to
crickets.
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:18 am to
“oh that’s different”

it’s the same people in charge.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8657 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:31 am to
I can’t wait to see what bullshite sanctions Biden puts on Russia and their helpers tomorrow. I hate being political on here i’ve said it a lot but when i see bullshite i call it. I’ll do the same if Trump. It just seems all Biden’s sanctions already on Russia may have ended up helping them more in the end. To be honest i’m getting very aggravated and exhausted with this war. If the U.S. and the western world isn’t going to come together and collectively give Ukraine what they need to at least put them in a stronger position to negotiate from then it’s over, it’s just a matter of how many more have to die to get there. The sad part is that most of our militaries can give Ukraine non essential items that would not degrade our own forces and they can actually stand up to Russia because the average Ukrainian soldier for the most part has proven to be a better soldier than his Russian counterpart. We’ve been needing to increase our artillery and air defense stocks well before this war started though so hopefully that happens from all this and we finally start taking the world serious with Iran being bolder and bolder and China continuing to churn out military hardware at a much faster rate then we are.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26839 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:54 am to
quote:

ISW Update


It is refreshing to get some relatively solid information.
Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 11:55 am to
You support Biden and the MSM "Russiagate" nonsense when you goon over Ukraine nonstop.

All of you do. You support leftists like Alexander Vindmann and the lies he spews. It's disgusting.

This post was edited on 2/22/24 at 12:19 pm
Posted by ticklechain
Forgotten coast
Member since Mar 2018
834 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:00 pm to
I've been following the his for almost two years, and I can't figure out what is real or bs information
Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:23 pm to
The same people (the entire MSM) who have been lying to you for 8 years about everything are the ones telling you how noble Ukraine (one of the most corrupt countries on the planet) is and how we must continue to send countless tens of billions more while we are suffering record deficits and while our own country is going to a woke hell.

If you choose to believe them after everything they've gaslit you about (including the 11 million illegals that have poured into our country since Biden was installed and who will be given a path to citizenship) that's your choice.
This post was edited on 2/22/24 at 12:30 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

it’s the same people in charge.


There were a lot of changes from the Imperial period, and over the course of the Soviet Unions existence.

Imperial Russia was run by a mixture of ethnic Russians and Germans. Baron Mannerhiem and Baron Wrangel are good examples of the German nobility in the Imperial period. The imperial elite had extensive families ties to the rest of Europe too. The Bolshevik leadership was predominantly Jewish, but included a number of other minorities, from Poles to Georgians. These minorities lost out or were pushed out under Stalin, and by the 1950s, the USSR was increasingly dominated by ethnic Russians, but the very senior leadership was dominated by people who came specifically from the Ukrainian SSR. It had the strongest Communist party. Putin is very different from someone like Bhreznev because he’s an ethnic Russian from Saint Petersburg and a classical liberal. Bhreznev by comparison was from the provinces and was the son of a metalworker.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:35 pm to
Just look at it wholestically, does (claim x) make sense when you look at what’s happening, or isn’t happening. If one side claims heavily losses for example, is there domestic coverage that indicates that? That shows signs of societal stress due to the death toll?
This post was edited on 2/22/24 at 1:34 pm
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21024 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:42 pm to
Well, Ukraine has independent media and is allowed to criticize the government and Russian media is government controlled and not allowed to criticize the government, so "domestic coverage" is a terrible metric.
Posted by Tiger985
Member since Nov 2006
7711 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:45 pm to
quote:

Well, Ukraine has independent media


You are one naive mfer
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:50 pm to
Telegram is a good outlet for complaining. But you can also get a sense of social stress from state media.

quote:

Ukraine has independent media


It’s pretty tightly controlled, and Zelensky nationalized all of the television stations. But that doesn’t make it worthless, and you can get some pretty unvarnished comments from western freelance reporters. Neil Hauer is a good example.
This post was edited on 2/22/24 at 12:54 pm
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42749 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:51 pm to
quote:

it’s the same people in charge.


Boom

Changing the name doesn’t change the culture, the type of leaders, and that’s been demonstrated over and over again.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26839 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:55 pm to
quote:

I've been following the his for almost two years, and I can't figure out what is real or bs information



It is indeed hard to know what's actually happening between the propaganda, fog of war and the blinded ideologues. There are a few sources that make an honest effort to verify what they report.
Posted by SirWinston
Say NO to War
Member since Jul 2014
104464 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 12:58 pm to
quote:

Well, Ukraine has independent media 


Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
139724 posts
Posted on 2/22/24 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

Changing the name doesn’t change the culture
Elections do. 1991 was the Russian people's first legitimate democratic election in history. 1996 was the second and probably the last.
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