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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:07 pm to
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8660 posts
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:07 pm to
There’s no chance Ukraine has taken delivery of F-16s already and have both their pilots and ground crews checked out by their NATO instructors. There’s just way too much they both need to learn, how to fight the aircraft and for the boys on the ground how to keep her in the air and not the maintenance hangar. Think late March to early June for the first half dozen pilots and their ground crews to get the OK for combat sorties. Even that is a rushed timeline but these first 6 will be Ukraine’s best and most adept at the English language already.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 12/27/23 at 8:52 pm to
I agree. I would bet that the truth is that Ukraine "has taken delivery" of the first F-16s, and those planes are now in Denmark with the pilots and ground crews who will fly and maintain them.

I'd guess that the planes are now officially the property of Ukraine, and people are confusing that with the idea that the planes are now inside Ukraine.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8660 posts
Posted on 12/27/23 at 9:58 pm to
You are correct in that they have “taken delivery” of a few, maybe 6, F-16B block 15s which is the 2 seater version of the F-16 but these first aircraft will be some of the very last, if they get sent to Ukraine at all, as they will be the trainers for new F-16 pilots. So yeah “taken delivery” is a little misleading to most who just read about it but aren’t up to date on the war or don’t know the logistics of how this all works. It will be the F-16A block 15 MLU that we will see first in Ukrainian airspace. I’m still waiting to see if we match this first batch going to Ukraine with a squadron or two of our own. There’s really no reason we shouldn’t. Having 40 or having 70 F-16s is obviously a very big difference. The Ukrainians would have to prove they were capable of operating a fleet that large first thought or it wouldn’t matter if we sent more or not.
This post was edited on 12/27/23 at 10:08 pm
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26879 posts
Posted on 12/27/23 at 11:10 pm to
quote:

There’s no chance Ukraine has taken delivery of F-16s already and have both their pilots and ground crews checked out by their NATO instructors. There’s just way too much they both need to learn, how to fight the aircraft and for the boys on the ground how to keep her in the air and not the maintenance hangar. Think late March to early June for the first half dozen pilots and their ground crews to get the OK for combat sorties. Even that is a rushed timeline but these first 6 will be Ukraine’s best and most adept at the English language already.


If this mal-administration had any brains, that training would have taken place many months ago in secret. That's a big if.

One knowledgeable contractor with a bunch of talented aircraft mechanics can get things rolling quickly

Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105479 posts
Posted on 12/27/23 at 11:21 pm to


The location of Fedosia raises some questions in my mind. Did they fly across Crimea or fire the missiles across Crimea? If so, where was the Russian air defense? Did they take the circular route around Crimea? Do they have aerial refueling capability or did someone else refuel them? If so, who?
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8660 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 12:43 am to
There’s 3 ways as I see it, Ukraine doesn’t have air to air refueling capability and we wouldn’t put one of our tankers in danger being anywhere near the area for them to be of help so:
1. They launched from the area around Kherson which puts the Su-24M aircraft serious danger of both long range and short/medium range air defenses. Launching from this area would put the export Storm Shadow right at its max range to where it hit.
2. They went even more ballsy and launched out over the black sea south of Odessa somewhere flying nap of the earth the entire way, gaining a little altitude to launch, then back down on the deck and hauling arse back home.
3. Someone has been keeping secrets and the Ukrainians have their hands on some domestic full range Storm Shadow/SCALP with 300 miles of range.

Any of these lead back to one major focus of the Ukrainians these past few months. For months they have been working to slowly degrade Russia’s air defenses with the priority being mobile the mobile radars that the S-300 and S-400 use. The largest of these hits came on the northern part of Crimea about 2 months ago when they knocked out an S-400 battery on the shoreline. Just my theory.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 5:27 am to
quote:

If so, where was the Russian air defense?


Russia has an S-400 unit less than 2 km from the port. It was obviously unable to down the Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles that struck the ship. Ukraine may have also used some decoy missiles to confuse Russian air defense.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20243 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:05 am to
quote:

Ukraine has fought this war for almost 2 years cost of 150 billion USD or so. If Ukraine gets 300 billion USD then they would be able to buy the stuff they need to fight for another 3 and 1/2 to 4 years.


Seizing those assets, many of which are not even part of the Russian govt, and then selling them, that opens the door for any US assets abroad, you realize that?????

And here is a novel idea, if they take 300 billion in assets how about they take 150 billion and pay us back our fricking money.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5729 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:07 am to
Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE
28 December 2023

On 25 December 2023, the Russian Navy's Ropucha class Landing Ship Tank (LST) Novocherkassk was completely destroyed following a Ukrainian strike while alongside at the port of Feodosia, on the south coast of Russian-occupied Crimea.

Open source evidence suggests it is highly likely the vessel was carrying explosive cargo when it was hit, causing a large secondary explosion. The incident takes the number of LSTS Russia has lost since the invasion to three: the Saratov sank on 24 March 2022, while the Minsk was functionally destroyed in dry dock on 13 September 2023. Two additional LSTs have likely been damaged.

Russia likely planned to use its LST force to launch significant amphibious assaults during the invasion and it doubled the number of these vessels in the Black Sea during the build-up to the war. As the war has dragged on, the ships have been more commonly employed in providing logistical support. This is a significant role because it augments the vital and relatively fragile road and rail connection of the Crimea Bridge, which links Crimea to Russia.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20243 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:09 am to
They NYT had an opinion piece this week about Ukraine looking for a peace deal and letting Russia keep what they have.

Fellas, when the Times (insert CIA/FBI) start posting articles like that, its over, time to pack the bags and call it a day. They are looking for a way for biden to back out without losing face with a pending election. They will be hailing his peace deal very soon.

Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:13 am to
Random tweets

quote:

Poland continues to block the border with Ukraine, about 4 thousand trucks are waiting in queues.

Andriy Demchenko, the spokesman of the State Security Service of Ukraine, announced this.

"The directions of the checkpoints Rava-Ruska-Grebenne, Krakivec-Korchova, and Yagodin-Dorohusk continue to be blocked," –– Demchenko noted.

LINK

RWA
quote:

I think ???????-?????????'s assessment of recent political events in Ukraine is the most correct so far:

“The harsh draft law on mobilization, which includes measures for the forced return of Ukrainians living in Europe, as well as statements that Ukraine will stop paying government employees and halt social welfare payments, including pensions, if there is no help from the West, are all part of a public information campaign aimed at extracting money and weapons from the West.

And one can understand the Ukrainian leadership; the situation has reached a dead end, something needs to be done, using the entire arsenal of persuasion.

The argument ‘If Ukraine does not stop Russia, then it will attack NATO and EU countries’ has worn itself out and no longer evokes any emotions.

They have resorted to the argument ‘Then we will kill another half a million Ukrainians and starve the pensioners to death.’

I don’t know if they realize in Kiev what they have come up with, as usually in a dead end situation people are not capable of a sound assessment of their own actions, but from the outside, it looks as if the Ukrainian authorities have taken the Ukrainians hostage and are demanding a ransom for their lives.”

LINK

quote:

The range of Storm Shadow missiles handed over to Ukraine is twice as long as expected - German military expert Erhard Bühler on the destruction of the landing ship Novocherkassk in the port of Feodosiya

Previously, it was believed that Ukraine had received an export version of these missiles with a range of 250 kilometers. However, according to Bühler, if the AFU managed to reach Feodosiya, this may indicate that they have the original version of the Storm Shadow missile with a range of 560 km, which is part of the NATO arsenal.

LINK


I came across this LINK about eggs in Russia that led me to this article -Worry in Russia as egg prices soar ahead of festive season

quote:

Surging egg prices, against a backdrop of high inflation and economic sanctions, are worrying the Russian authorities, especially as eggs are a symbolic and central ingredient of the festive season...

But the purchasing power of Russians has indeed eroded over the past two years, due to a very weak rouble and stubbornly high inflation, which in November stood at 7.48% year-on-year...

In November, the average price of eggs in Russia rose by 40.29% year-on-year, according to the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat)...

In response, the Federal Service for Veterinary and Phytosanitary Supervision (Rosselkhoznadzor) on Friday authorised the import of eggs from Turkey, and the Russian Ministry of Agriculture is proposing a six-month ban on egg exports.

Last week, Prosecutor General Igor Krasnov ordered prosecutors to launch regional checks on producers and sales outlets for any unjustified price rises.

Inflation in egg prices also led to some unusual scenes on Saturday, with crowds queuing up for eggs at an agricultural fair in the Belgorod region because prices were much lower than in supermarkets, according to videos that have gone viral on social media...

According to experts quoted by Russian media, the rise in egg prices is due to the increase in the cost of poultry feed and veterinary products, an indirect consequence of Western sanctions, which have led to a rise in the price of imported products.

According to Rosstat, the price of chicken rose by 29.26% in November 2023 compared with the same month the previous year.

Russian families are closely monitoring the price of eggs in December, as eggs and mayonnaise are central ingredients in end-of-year festive meals, particularly the Olivier salad, a Russian New Year's Eve staple.



quote:

The Panamanian flagged merchant ship Vyssos, bound for Izmail, reportedly hit a mine when entering the Danube Delta on the Ukrainian side yesterday.

LINK

quote:

In the course of three months, 16-year-old boys will be put on military registration in the LPR, reported the head of the Luhansk Regional Military Administration, Artem Lysohor.

Older men who have bypassed the military commissariats since the occupation will also be identified - they will be accounted for until December 31.

Enterprises, institutions and organizations were also involved in this work in order to obtain the necessary personal data of men. Educational institutions, in particular, must ensure the urgent attendance of young men at military commissariats.

LINK

quote:

The Russian Orthodox Church officially recognized abortion as murder

The Holy Synod adopted the document "On the inviolability of human life from the moment of conception." In it, termination of pregnancy at any stage is considered murder.

LINK

quote:

Putin intends to go to war with Ukraine for at least 5 years - Nikkei Asia citing sources

Putin told Xi Jinping about such intentions during his visit to Moscow in March this year.

LINK
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:18 am to
quote:

Ukraine looking for a peace deal and letting Russia keep what they have.


I hope you realize this deal has been proposed several times but Russia keeps objecting to it for 2 reasons
1) they want more territory than they currently occupy because they "annexed" them
2) Ukraine wants security guarantees and Russia balks at that idea


It's nothing new and doesn't actually change anything like you suggest.

Until the minimum conditions that both parties can agree to are actually there its all just hearsay. Plus this from my post above
quote:

Putin intends to go to war with Ukraine for at least 5 years - Nikkei Asia citing sources

Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 7:27 am to
Russia nears end of rate rise cycle with hike to 16%

quote:

Russia's central bank raised its key interest rate by 100 basis points to 16% on Friday, hiking borrowing costs for the fifth consecutive meeting in response to stubborn inflation, and suggested that its tightening cycle was now close to completion.

The bank has raised rates by 850 basis points since July, including an emergency hike in August after the Kremlin called for tighter monetary policy when the rouble tumbled past 100 to the dollar. It has since recovered to just over 90.

The bank said pro-inflationary risks over the medium-term horizon remained substantial and warned that stabilising inflation near its 4% target would require high rates for a long time. Higher-than-expected government spending would also raise inflation risks, it said.


FWIW this is why the US had wage and price controls in WWII.

quote:

The central bank's tightening cycle began this summer when inflationary pressure from a tight labour market, strong consumer demand and the government's budget deficit was compounded by the falling rouble.

The bank said labour market conditions were the key supply-side constraint on the Russian economy, which it said was still suffering from significant labour shortages, especially in manufacturing.

But economic growth is set to outperform previous forecasts and exceed 3% this year, the bank said, driven by domestic demand propelled by rising lending and wages.


quote:

"We still think more tightening is to come as inflation pressures build further," said Liam Peach, senior emerging markets economist at Capital Economics, who said he expected another hike to 17% next year.

JP Morgan's Anatoliy Shal said this was likely the last step in the tightening cycle, with current policy already sufficiently, if not overly, restrictive, and he expected rates to be cut to around 10% by end-2024.

Russia had gradually reversed an emergency hike to 20% which it made in February 2022 after Moscow sent its troops into Ukraine, prompting sweeping Western sanctions. It cut rates to as low as 7.5% earlier this year.

Putin on Thursday said annual inflation could approach 8% this year, well above the central bank's 4% target. He even issued a rare apology when a pensioner complained to him about the price of eggs.

The central bank reiterated its expectation that inflation would end the year at the upper end of its 7-7.5% forecast range.

"Inflation expectations have remained high for many years in a row," Nabiullina said. "This really worries us."

Next year, the bank expects year-end inflation at 4-4.5%, although Nabiullina admitted that the risk of inflation being higher was far greater than it falling below target.
This post was edited on 12/28/23 at 7:29 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21029 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:41 am to
quote:

They NYT had an opinion piece this week about Ukraine looking for a peace deal and letting Russia keep what they have.

Fellas, when the Times (insert CIA/FBI) start posting articles like that, its over, time to pack the bags and call it a day. They are looking for a way for biden to back out without losing face with a pending election. They will be hailing his peace deal very soon.


Here's a post on that topic this morning from the former prime minister of Russia and current Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation:





So, all Ukraine has to do is simply agree to give Kyiv and most of the rest of its territory to Russia. That's all! Why is NATO still pushing Ukraine into its war of aggression against Russia? Why won't Ukraine simply surrender and give everyone peace?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:54 am to
quote:

how about they take 150 billion and pay us back our fricking money.


You did know that we haven’t given Ukraine 150 B in cash, right? Or did that news not reach Trinidad either?
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 8:59 am to
quote:

So, all Ukraine has to do is simply agree to give Kyiv and most of the rest of its territory to Russia. That's all! Why is NATO still pushing Ukraine into its war of aggression against Russia? Why won't Ukraine simply surrender and give everyone peace?


Exactly what I have repeatedly said here. Ukraine would have to surrender to stop the war.

Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8131 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 10:26 am to
quote:

They NYT had an opinion piece this week about Ukraine looking for a peace deal and letting Russia keep what they have.

Oh, the war is over again? Shame that Russian ship got blown up for nothing, then.

Meanwhile, outside of opinion pieces, Ukraine is attacking Russian logistics infrastructure in/around Crimea, isolating the island and starting to squeeze their ability to supply military aid.
Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8131 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Surging egg prices, against a backdrop of high inflation and economic sanctions, are worrying the Russian authorities, especially as eggs are a symbolic and central ingredient of the festive season...

But the purchasing power of Russians has indeed eroded over the past two years, due to a very weak rouble and stubbornly high inflation, which in November stood at 7.48% year-on-year...

In November, the average price of eggs in Russia rose by 40.29% year-on-year, according to the Russian Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat)...

In response, the Federal Service for Veterinary and Phytosanitary Supervision (Rosselkhoznadzor) on Friday authorised the import of eggs from Turkey, and the Russian Ministry of Agriculture is proposing a six-month ban on egg exports.

Last week, Prosecutor General Igor Krasnov ordered prosecutors to launch regional checks on producers and sales outlets for any unjustified price rises.

Inflation in egg prices also led to some unusual scenes on Saturday, with crowds queuing up for eggs at an agricultural fair in the Belgorod region because prices were much lower than in supermarkets, according to videos that have gone viral on social media...

According to experts quoted by Russian media, the rise in egg prices is due to the increase in the cost of poultry feed and veterinary products, an indirect consequence of Western sanctions, which have led to a rise in the price of imported products.

According to Rosstat, the price of chicken rose by 29.26% in November 2023 compared with the same month the previous year.

Russian families are closely monitoring the price of eggs in December, as eggs and mayonnaise are central ingredients in end-of-year festive meals, particularly the Olivier salad, a Russian New Year's Eve staple.

Reminder: this is less about west helping Ukraine win and more about setting the conditions for Russia to lose.

I do think there's at least a 25% chance of utter chaos during/after the Russian elections in March.
Posted by Tiger985
Member since Nov 2006
7711 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 10:32 am to
quote:

Shame that Russian ship got blown up for nothing, then.


Ukraine will be able to hit targets far behind the Russian lines for as long as they have missiles.

What they will not do, is drive the Russians out of Ukraine. The primary reason is they lack the manpower. Thinking people have recognized this for quite some time.

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42751 posts
Posted on 12/28/23 at 10:42 am to
quote:

What they will not do, is drive the Russians out of Ukraine. The primary reason is they lack the manpower. Thinking people have recognized this for quite some time.


The Cong and the N Vietnamese didn’t have the manpower to drive the US out of Vietnam, but they did.

The Afghans didn’t have the manpower to drive the US or Russia out of Afghanistan, but they did.

How long will Russians fight in the trenches with rats gnawing at their appendages? How long will they attack in mass to consumer an acre or two? How long will people in the home front sacrifice so Putin can take over Kiev and Odessa?

Manpower is important, but so is the will to fight. Who is going to lose that first? Ukraine or Russia?
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