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Posted on 4/22/23 at 3:50 pm to CitizenK
I can't say playing the world policeman and backfilling a weak Europe has been cost-free either. Sometimes I am not sure which side of the ledger we are on... and playing "what if we had/had not .... " is always speculative to a large degree.
Hoping Ukraine is able to toss the Russians out and negotiate from a position of strength...
Hoping Ukraine is able to toss the Russians out and negotiate from a position of strength...
Posted on 4/22/23 at 5:15 pm to TigersnJeeps
OF course it isn't cost free, but not doing it would mean many Trillions and our blood. Either that or being choked from any semblance of free trade for the USA. In short not being involved is the most ignorant economic choice there is.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 6:05 pm to CitizenK
Do you u think a hot war between USA and Russia would be long and drawn out?
Posted on 4/22/23 at 6:20 pm to ticklechain
No one is mentioning a hot war between the US and Russia. Russia has drawn way more redlines than Obama did in Syria, and hasn't done shiite when they are crossed, other the scare pantywaist politards
Posted on 4/22/23 at 6:22 pm to ticklechain
LINK
Ryan Evans argues that it's nuts for us to be spending the kind of money that we are in Ukraine and not learn the lessons that we could be learning with a formal program of battlefield observers.
I tend to think that we live in a low-trust society and that Congressional opposition to an observer program would be strong for the reasons he gives, but I agree in theory that it's a good idea.
Ryan Evans argues that it's nuts for us to be spending the kind of money that we are in Ukraine and not learn the lessons that we could be learning with a formal program of battlefield observers.
quote:
There is only so much human beings can learn from afar, even in the age of satellites, instantaneous communication, and video streaming. (In fact, some of these newer communications technologies distort rather than clarify what is actually happening on a given battlefield, as Michael Kofman and I have discussed on the War on the Rocks podcast.) I have understood this viscerally since my time as a civil servant in Afghanistan and this lesson was only reinforced during a visit to southern Ukraine in late October of last year. As such, it is surprising that the U.S. Defense Department has not launched a formal battlefield observer program that would send military personnel from all the services and a variety of occupational specialties to learn as much as they can through direct observation and communication with Ukrainian forces where the war is happening. It would be worth sending them with civilian military analysts, such as the various teams that have already organized their own battlefield research. This is far beyond what the U.S. Defense Attaché Office in Kyiv is currently resourced and authorized to do.
quote:
I can anticipate three major counterarguments: First, if U.S. servicemembers in Ukraine are killed, hurt, or captured, this could risk escalation into a major war against a nuclear-armed foe. This is no small matter. Any decision that puts American servicemembers into a war zone comes with great responsibility. But is there a plausible risk of escalation? Probably not. American volunteers have already been killed and captured by Russia, and yet World War III has not yet happened. And of all the wars to which the United States has dispatched battlefield observers, casualties have never been the cause — approximate or otherwise — of further U.S. involvement in that war. Relatedly, others will fear the risk of mission creep. They might say that battlefield observation will become advise-and-assist, which will then become direct U.S. military intervention against Russia. This concern should be taken seriously. Still, it can be guarded against with strong civilian control and congressional oversight focused on avoiding those things that create mission creep such as “task accretion,” “mission shift,” and “mission transition.”
Another objection will be that Ukrainian forces are too busy to babysit U.S. battlefield observers. I can assure you that — based on my conversations with Ukrainian military leaders in Ukraine last October — this is not the case.
I tend to think that we live in a low-trust society and that Congressional opposition to an observer program would be strong for the reasons he gives, but I agree in theory that it's a good idea.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 6:58 pm to CitizenK
quote:
OF course it isn't cost free, but not doing it would mean many Trillions and our blood
What are you referring to here?
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:10 pm to GOP_Tiger
1.) What happened to OMLandshark ?
2.) Is this the longest thread ever?
Thanks
2.) Is this the longest thread ever?
Thanks
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:11 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I tend to think that we live in a low-trust society and that Congressional opposition to an observer program would be strong for the reasons he gives, but I agree in theory that it's a good idea.
I have seen enough drone vids from both sides to know observers would be at risk. In order to get close enough to see what is actually going on you are in range of artillery spotter drones, suicide drones, and grenade dropping drones.
In the past it was more a risk for indirect artillery fire.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:11 pm to Tyga Woods
wyd
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:17 pm to mjthe
Watching succession. Wyd
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:18 pm to Tyga Woods
Checking out succession
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:19 pm to mjthe
It’s aight. I’ve been waiting for this Shiv chick to get naked but she never does. She only gets fatter. 
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:22 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
2.) Is this the longest thread ever?
yes.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 7:41 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
) What happened to OMLandshark ?
After claiming that Europe would collapse sometime at the end of 2022, he went off the rails about a ref call and got banned iirc
quote:
Is this the longest thread ever?
Nope, but it's up there. Q thread was longer as was the Katrina thread iirc
Posted on 4/22/23 at 8:00 pm to GOP_Tiger
LINK
I really do think that, as part of this offensive, Ukraine is going to attempt a crossing somewhere. That's what the 100 Rosomaks are for. That's what the Dutch M3 pontoon system is for. That's what the 58 Louisiana-made, armored riverine boats are for.
And we know from the Teixeira leaks that, as of February, Russia had very few troops in that area to defend against such a crossing.
This is my own idea of what I think I'd do, based on the little I know:
1) Attack first south from Polohy and head straight south for the sea, to cut the M14 road.
2) Then, as Russia rushes to respond, cross the Dnipro near Dudchany (the top potential crossing point on the above map) and push along the road that goes southeast to Henichesk. Try to trap thousands of Russian troops in Melitopol.
DISCLAIMER: I have no expertise in military strategy and am simply making a meaningless post on a message board to amuse myself.
quote:
Russians worry about a possible Dnipro crossing by Ukraine with a sizeable armored grouping. They published this map that shows possible crossing points and report Ukraine is preparing for this eventuality.
I really do think that, as part of this offensive, Ukraine is going to attempt a crossing somewhere. That's what the 100 Rosomaks are for. That's what the Dutch M3 pontoon system is for. That's what the 58 Louisiana-made, armored riverine boats are for.
And we know from the Teixeira leaks that, as of February, Russia had very few troops in that area to defend against such a crossing.
This is my own idea of what I think I'd do, based on the little I know:
1) Attack first south from Polohy and head straight south for the sea, to cut the M14 road.
2) Then, as Russia rushes to respond, cross the Dnipro near Dudchany (the top potential crossing point on the above map) and push along the road that goes southeast to Henichesk. Try to trap thousands of Russian troops in Melitopol.
DISCLAIMER: I have no expertise in military strategy and am simply making a meaningless post on a message board to amuse myself.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 8:04 pm to Tyga Woods
quote:
What happened to OMLandshark ?
He threatened/advocated violence against the officials calling the Egg Bowl back on Thanksgiving night and has been banned ever since.
This post was edited on 4/22/23 at 8:05 pm
Posted on 4/22/23 at 8:06 pm to StormyMcMan
Use of the corruption indices is objective and not unfair when talking about Ukrainian corruption.
But is also not unfair to note that they are an Eastern European country that was part of the USSR until 1991 and continued to be strong armed by Russia thereafter.
They have made a lot of progress in self gov’t in a short time, but nobody should be surprised they have a baseline near the bottom, where Russia resides on these indices.
But is also not unfair to note that they are an Eastern European country that was part of the USSR until 1991 and continued to be strong armed by Russia thereafter.
They have made a lot of progress in self gov’t in a short time, but nobody should be surprised they have a baseline near the bottom, where Russia resides on these indices.
Posted on 4/22/23 at 8:10 pm to nitwit
quote:that, until recently, much of the corruption consisted of Russian bribes. Simply cutting the connections to Russia lowered the corruption a great deal. But there's lots of objective data on the improvement.
But is also not unfair to note
Posted on 4/22/23 at 8:12 pm to SteelerBravesDawg
Free OML
I miss his rants and they were entertaining.
I miss his rants and they were entertaining.
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