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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:09 am to
Posted by tokenBoiler
Lafayette, Indiana
Member since Aug 2012
4440 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:09 am to
quote:

(I): What is the speed of your reaction to such a message?
(O): If we saw something right now [nodding to the monitors ], it would take three to five minutes, and a shell would land there.


That seems to me to be a fundamental game-changer compared to previous conflicts. Can one of you with experience comment on that? Or am I maybe misunderstanding the context he's speaking in?
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11870 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:17 am to
quote:

That seems to me to be a fundamental game-changer compared to previous conflicts. Can one of you with experience comment on that? Or am I maybe misunderstanding the context he's speaking in?



i believe this was one of the issues the Russians had in the Kharkov failure. Took the russians too much time to call in a artillery strike. Ukraine would send in light cav units for hit and run/quick penetration strikes. by the time the artillery strikes were conducted Ukrainian forces where no longer in the area..... and russian doctrine is heavily dependent on artillery for control of the battle field
This post was edited on 2/14/23 at 11:23 am
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18092 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:32 am to
It's amazing. The drone operators in the front-line infantry are also streaming their drone video to this artillery command center, which is well behind the front line.

So, the drone operator can still see something and call it in, but the big screens in the command center mean that the artillery center will likely see it before the the drone operator, and they will quickly direct a firing unit to hit the target.

It seems so quaint to read things like this Wikipedia article on how a US Field artillery team needs a "forward observer" -- no, it doesn't work that way anymore, because drones have changed everything about the artillery targeting process.
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
98565 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 11:39 am to
and this is off the shelf, ad hoc stuff most likely a generation or more behind state of the art. This is a foreshadowing of what a postindustrial war would look like but it's not the whole picture. I think China would have a lot of the same human problems Russia is having but their technology would work and they'd have plenty of it.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31761 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 12:38 pm to
quote:

That seems to me to be a fundamental game-changer compared to previous conflicts. Can one of you with experience comment on that? Or am I maybe misunderstanding the context he's speaking in?


it is.

the US also has loitering drones that are stealth and float up to like 50k feet and watch the whole battlefield. we have been able to see the whole battlefield for a long time now, problem with afgan is they would hide as civilians then come out last second. in a real protracted war against a conventional military......the world has no fricking clue.

if you thought the 1992 shock and awe and the one in 2003 were impressive....thats fricking childs play compared to today. would be like comparing the korean war tech to the first gulf war tech. not even comprehendable for a country like russia.

also have bombs we can drop from them that break into around 100 smaller bombs all that are smart and attack based on either heat signature or gps

its why a column like the russians came into ukraine with, would last about 2 seconds.

now as mentioned....we aint giving them are good shite and sure as frick not giving our classified shite. Ukraine has caused a stalemate with the 2nd largest military in the world using our tech from 2 decades ago mainly. they will win now that we are giving them tech and equipment from this century. i mean look at the game changer the m142 himar is and that was developed in the late 90s, although not in service until 2010.

thats why i always laugh when people talk about our weak military. go to fricking benning or bragg and tell me we are fricking weak. people have no clue.

and thats not mentioning crazy arse tech the navy and AF have. which is nuts in and of itself.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
18092 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 12:55 pm to
I agree with @DefMon3:

quote:

Considering all recent reports, it seems the AFU are pushing back a bit around Bakhmut. Previously we have seen the AFU reset months of RU progress in a few days. Will be interesting to see if something similar will happen now (not months this time since RU have advanced faster)


With no advantage in fires and no human waves of Wagner prisoners to throw against Ukrainian troops, it seems that the Russians don't have the means to complete the capture of Bakhmut anytime soon.

So, if we're taking stock of the "big Russian offensive," it has so far resulted in huge losses in Vuhledar, the capture of a small village to the east of Kupiansk in the far northern part of the front, and a couple of villages near Bakhmut.

I think that Russia still has a significant strike force behind the Svatove-Kreminna line, and the "big offensive" isn't over, but I think that my priors were correct that this was mainly for show and wasn't going to accomplish much.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
23965 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

If we saw something right now [nodding to the monitors ], it would take three to five minutes, and a shell would land there.



quote:

hat seems to me to be a fundamental game-changer compared to previous conflicts.


There are many reasons the Russians are performing poorly and incurring massive casualties.

Intel capabilities and secure comm capabilities (speed) are what is devastating the Russians. They cant mass or stage any numbers of equipment or personnel anywhere near the battle space. They cant fire one round of artillery fire without that location being fixed.

So when a Ukrainian round goes down range it hits its target and kills Russians and/or equipment. The Russians may have drone intel but local anti drone capability is much better now so most times they fire blind. When they do that that the Ukrainians let them expend ammunition.

Everyone in Europe listens to the Russians "communicating". There are no secrets what they are doing or trying to do. The "offensive" in the South has had a couple of starts, complete failure both attempts.

I would add counter battery technology to the above, the Russians have to shoot and move or else. Thats what the artillery officer is alluding to, round goes out 5 minutes later that grid coordinate goes boom.
Posted by Yammie250F
Member since Jul 2010
904 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:27 pm to
quote:

lsu777


I'm assuming you were artillery with the 777 username after the M777.

I was Marine artillery from 2000-2004 and up until Iraq all fire missions were done mainly from FO's. When we started in Iraq in '03 almost all fire missions were done by drones. Much quicker and virtually no human error on where the target was. Coordinates went to the fire directional center (FDC) then to the gun line then pull string big gun go boom! I believe now with the M777 the FDC is actually built into the gun which even reduces more time from calling of the fire mission to shot out. Don't know much about HIMARS because that was after my time but watching the artillery videos and seeing how accurate they are has me watching in amazement. Makes it seem like like what we had was childs play.

Another thing I always think about is my dads friend was artillery in Vietnam. From talking with him it was basically the same steps they did to what we did. Get a mission sent to the FDC, they calculate it and send the info to the gun by radio or wire then shoot. So basically not much change from 1970 to 2003. If I talked to an artillery man now I would probably be totally lost to how they do things.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
23965 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

shot out




The old days. PID and a firing solution are a computer function now.

quote:

Don't know much about HIMARS because that was after my time but watching the artillery videos and seeing how accurate they are has me watching in amazement. Makes it seem like like what we had was childs play.



Its so good the Marine Corps are building assault Battalions around them. Traded tanks for HIMARS.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31761 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

I'm assuming you were artillery with the 777 username after the M777.


na this name actually predates 9/11 before i joined. was on the old software here. just kept the same name when i registered once chicken moved over to new software

i was a fueler, 77foxtrot, later became 92F when they moved all MOS that fell under quartermaster to 92.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31761 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 1:55 pm to
quote:

I'm assuming you were artillery with the 777 username after the M777.

I was Marine artillery from 2000-2004 and up until Iraq all fire missions were done mainly from FO's. When we started in Iraq in '03 almost all fire missions were done by drones. Much quicker and virtually no human error on where the target was. Coordinates went to the fire directional center (FDC) then to the gun line then pull string big gun go boom! I believe now with the M777 the FDC is actually built into the gun which even reduces more time from calling of the fire mission to shot out. Don't know much about HIMARS because that was after my time but watching the artillery videos and seeing how accurate they are has me watching in amazement. Makes it seem like like what we had was childs play.

Another thing I always think about is my dads friend was artillery in Vietnam. From talking with him it was basically the same steps they did to what we did. Get a mission sent to the FDC, they calculate it and send the info to the gun by radio or wire then shoot. So basically not much change from 1970 to 2003. If I talked to an artillery man now I would probably be totally lost to how they do things.



same concepts but just different procedures. now everythign is almost automated from the drones. but same concepts just not hand done. difference is the non traditional artillery we have that we have never deployed.
Posted by RollTide1987
Augusta, GA
Member since Nov 2009
65147 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 2:25 pm to
Seeing reports that the Russians are once again in retreat from Bakhmut.
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
773 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 4:00 pm to
quote:

Seeing reports that the Russians are once again in retreat from Bakhmut.


Where did you see/hear about them?

I have found little beyond the below link, not seen him before but from his feed seems to look at both sides strengths and weaknesses:

Twitter - @AndrewPerpetua

States in a follow up tweet that several UAF counter attacks aren't being talked about yet.

Also seen this reported via several sources:

Financial Times - Russia accumulating air power near Ukraine border.

Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
773 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 4:54 pm to
Map of Russian fortifications constructed since the invasion began from the Twitter account @bradyafr that DabosDynasty posted a few pages ago.

Melitopol North/NE approaches got a lot of love.

Google Maps - Russian fortifications


Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
145350 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 5:23 pm to
quote:

thats why i always laugh when people talk about our weak military
mostly because those people are mouth breathing intellectually dishonest goobers missing a chromosome
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3787 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 8:11 pm to
ISW update

quote:

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin signaled on February 14 that the Ukraine Defense Contact Group’s 54 member states will continue to support Ukraine in the long run. Austin stated that the Ukraine Defense Contact Group (a coalition of 54 states supporting Ukraine’s defense) will “support Ukraine's fight for freedom over the long haul” and will support Ukraine during a spring counteroffensive


quote:

The Washington Post reported that US officials have privately signaled to Ukraine that Western security aid to Ukraine is finite, however. The Washington Post reported on February 13 that an anonymous US government official stated that US government officials are trying to “impress upon [Ukrainian officials] that [the US Government] can’t do anything and everything forever.


quote:

Western reporting indicates that there continue to be Western concerns about Ukraine’s determination to hold Bakhmut. The Washington Post also reported that US defense planners assess that Ukrainian forces are unable to simultaneously defend Bakhmut and launch a spring counteroffensive and have urged Ukraine to prioritize the spring counteroffensive over defending Bakhmut.[


quote:

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is reportedly recruiting convicts and mimicking the Wagner Group’s treatment of convicts as cannon fodder. CNN reported that the Russian MoD had been directly recruiting prisoners who deployed to Soledar, Donetsk Oblast, into formations of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) 2nd Army Corps in October 2022


quote:

The Russian MoD’s decision to recruit prisoners is an indicator that the Kremlin seeks to exploit convicts for future human wave attacks in a similar fashion as the Wagner Group despite convicts’ limited combat effectiveness. Representative of the Ukrainian Main Military Intelligence Directorate Andriy Usov stated that Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu and Chief of the Russian General Staff Valery Gerasimov are creating a convict cannon fodder reserve that they could directly control through the MoD’s own private military companies


quote:

The Russian MoD’s recruitment of prisoners in fall 2022 may also coincide with the intensifying criticism from Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin. Prigozhin began to publicly attack Russian military commanders in early October, and the Russian MoD’s intervention in his recruitment scheme may have ignited some of these grievances with the conventional Russian military and MoD bureaucracy


quote:

Key Takeaways

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin signaled on February 14 that the Ukraine Defense Contact Group’s 54 member states will continue to support Ukraine in the long run. The Washington Post reported that US officials have privately signaled to Ukraine that Western security aid to Ukraine is finite, however.

The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is reportedly recruiting convicts and mimicking the Wagner Group’s treatment of convicts as cannon fodder.

Russian forces continued offensive actions in the Kupyansk direction and along the Svatove-Kreminna line on February 14.

Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground attacks in western Donetsk Oblast or in Kherson, Mykolaiv, or western Zaporizhia oblasts on February 14.

Russian ground forces on the Kola Peninsula in northwestern Russia have been reduced to one-fifth of their initial strength numbers before the invasion of Ukraine, supporting ISW’s longtime assessment that the Kremlin is not concerned about a NATO conventional military threat against Russia.

A Ukrainian and Tatar partisan group reportedly conducted an improvised explosive device (IED) attack on a car carrying two Russian military personnel and two Russian special service representatives in Nova Kakhovka on February 10.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko may meet on February 17.
Posted by Burhead
Member since Dec 2014
2099 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 8:25 pm to
quote:

@sentdefender Moldova’s President, Maia Sandu stated today that she believes that “Foreign Actors” are moving to disrupt and overthrow the current Moldovan Government and that she is requesting for Special Powers to be given to Security Forces to prevent a Russian coup d'état in the Country.
Posted by Mr Happy
Member since May 2019
1122 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 9:37 pm to
article from Meduza
A crisis of abundance and other paradoxes UCLA economist Oleg Itskhoki talks about Russia’s economy under sanctions, why it ‘failed to collapse,’ and the crisis around the corner.

It's a good but long article. To summarize, the Russian economy did not collapse in 2022 because of robust export earnings, a budget surplus and a non-dollarized monetary system. But a gradual decline will continue.

Not in the article, but it seems like every other week for the past year the Washington Post was running a story about the collapse of the Russian economy.

Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5179 posts
Posted on 2/14/23 at 10:12 pm to


Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
773 posts
Posted on 2/15/23 at 1:58 am to
Looks like the Kerch bridge is near to being repaired, at least for motor vehicles.

Twitter - @NOELreports

Some interesting observations in the thread that the background shows the rail bridge and how they appear to be repairing the most compromised sections with single modules that are rolled in on the track itself rather the entire span.
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