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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 12/17/22 at 11:24 am to
Posted by Tigris
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Member since Jul 2005
13136 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 11:24 am to
Thanks for the link. Very long article that is well worth reading if you have 45 minutes or so. It's good to see that journalism isn't entirely dead, very well done.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45582 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Ukrainians give Russia enough time to somewhat regroup with what they have left and make the fight more difficult.



The Russian military is about 60-65% degraded, that includes trained personnel and equipment. They could make a push in a sector, but they dont have enough equipment to be active on multiple fronts.



Russia has thousands of tanks in storage and it has the industrial capability to modernize them. It has allies (Iran, North Korea, China, and possibly India) who are willing to provide it with computer chips and other high tech components needed to modernize or act as middle man and purchase them from the west for Russia in exchange for cheap oil. Russia also has people who are not stupid or so corrupt that they might as well be stupid. If this war goes on long enough the those people will eventually rise to command. Russia has also made some changes such as changing conscription to 2 years instead of 1 year and Russia already knows it needs to train its soldiers better but it does not have time to do so right now since it needs its troops on the front for mass attacks. However, if Ukraine agrees to a ceasefire for negotiations then Russia will get the time it needs to modernize equipment, better train its troops, and for talent to rise in the ranks. Even if a peace deal is struck Russia will not honor it for long if Putin and his people remain in power. I'm not necessarily against a ceasefire and negotiations because Ukraine could benefit from it too. However, if there is a ceasefire and negotiations then the West needs to continue arming Ukraine and expand its arms programs to them to include tanks, fighters, and lots of air defense systems. Russia is going to attack Ukraine again if there is a cease fire and I guess it would be in the spring/summer of 2025 or spring/summer of 2026 at the latest.
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 1:29 pm to
You have to think the powers that be in Russia realize that any cease fire longer than 3-6months starts to lose its benefit.

Arms are not going to cease flowing into Ukraine.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
11880 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 1:53 pm to
And businesses continue to leave. This is a dataviz from the London Financial Times of numbers of businesses sorted by country who've left Russia (dark Red), decided to leave but not yet gone (pink), uncertain (light blue), and staying (dark blue). This doesn't show business they'll inevitably pick up from the Irans, Chinas, and South Africas of the world, but this isn't good for them.

Posted by LookSquirrel
Old Millville
Member since Oct 2019
7662 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:38 pm to


Looks like the push will stay on until nuclear war is achieved !!
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:42 pm to
Anyone who’s red pilled knows the only way to cure the world of degeneracy and hedonism is cleansing of fire.

Only once the world is nuked back to the Stone Age will mankind once again return to the Lord and traditional values.

Putin knows this. Thank you, Putin!
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20975 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:43 pm to
quote:

I think you can infer that this leak is from a hawk seeking leverage within the defense community over whether to supply additional support to really allow Ukraine a chance at a complete victory, trying to paint the "don't escalate" faction as squishes.


Maybe because they actually are squishes?

But, yeah, I think that those people are losing the debate in NATO countries. A German poll published yesterday showed that 55% of voters in Scholz's own party, the SPD, want to send modern tanks to help Ukraine. In response, Scholz said that Germany will not do so unilaterally, indicating that he's waiting on the US to commit to also sending modern armored vehicles.



For those who don't know, the Abrams tank is generally considered to be a less-than-ideal fit for Ukraine, because it runs on insane amounts of fuel (which would entail significant logistics problems), and it's too heavy for some Ukrainian bridges. The German-made Leopard 2 tank is a much better fit, and European NATO countries could easily collectively donate hundreds of them to Ukraine.

Personally, I think that the US commitment will happen shortly after the new omnibus spending bill clears Congress and gets to President Biden's desk. That bill allocates an additional $37 billion in assistance to Ukraine for 2023, and $21.7 billion of that is for direct military support.

Needless to say, $21.7 billion is a lot of money, and there's still several billion left from the current authorization. If you set aside $3 billion or so for a year of ammo, parts and repairs to already-donated equipment, training Ukrainian troops, and intelligence support, that would still leave over $20 billion for new weapons.

The Abrams tank may not be a great choice for Ukraine, but Bradley Fighting Vehicles are absolutely a good fit, and the US has over 6,000 of them in our arsenal. Depending on the variant, they have a sticker value of $2-4 million each, meaning that we could easily give Ukraine 300 of them with just $1 billion of that money.

If NATO were to give Ukraine even just 200 Leopards and 300 Bradleys, that could make a huge difference on the battlefield.

President Biden's request for $37 billion for Ukraine was incorporated into the omnibus spending bill that Congress is finalizing right now. Sen. McConnell recently said that he expects the Senate to pass the bill on the 22nd, and then the House would follow on the 23rd, so that members of Congress could go home for Christmas.

Could we see modern NATO weapons committed to Ukraine around New Year's Day? Obviously, the Patriot system that we may be sending to Ukraine costs about $1 billion, so that's probably a separate announcement, but I can't imagine that we would wait too long to start spending that new $21.7 billion -- there's every reason NOT to delay.

What do y'all think?
Posted by jeffsdad
Member since Mar 2007
24906 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:50 pm to
I know nothing about the military, but I’d say whatever system finds and destroy artillery is badly needed
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 4:12 pm to
Chatter indicates spring/early summer is going to be bad for the Russians if the conflict has not been resolved by then which would jive with your assertions for use of that aid.

Frankly, I expected a dramatic crescendo in November wherein Russia agreed to cede gains, demilitarize crimea, sanctions completely lifted, and an agreement for Ukraine to not be in nato for 20 years or something.

I am a little surprised Russia is doubling down. I don’t know what they’re looking at to think that’s a good idea or there’s anything to gain.

It gives me pause because the only thing that would distract the United States from this is a major conflict elsewhere.

Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150175 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 4:56 pm to
Meanwhile on the poliboard regarding Zelensky
quote:

Putin would deztroyhim
quote:

Putin would eat him alive. Putin is a Godan and Zelensky is an actor.

quote:

Real man? Z, you are a cock loving midget bitch.
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 4:57 pm
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61723 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 5:13 pm to
LOL
Posted by LookSquirrel
Old Millville
Member since Oct 2019
7662 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 5:25 pm to
quote:

Russia agreed to cede gains, demilitarize crimea, sanctions completely lifted, and an agreement for Ukraine to not be in nato for 20 years or something.


Was this an offer that was made to Putin by Ukraine, or NATO, or someone else?
Posted by Highthoughts
Member since Sep 2022
313 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 7:05 pm to
I don’t know if an offer was made, but that’s what I expected to happen.
Posted by WestCoastAg
Member since Oct 2012
150175 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 8:34 pm to
quote:

Putin is a black belt in judo. He'll just grab Zelensky, take him down, and humiliate him.

Zelensky is no more of a man than Lindsey Graham.
quote:

The O-T thread is so embarrassing. They really think this is a war not run by globalist orgs and believe it’s not theater.
quote:

I'll just repeat what everyone with a functional brain has already said in this thread...

Putin, even with his age and health issues, would absolutely embarrass Zelensky. It would be so bad that it would be more like watching a good comedy than a fight.

It would be even better, if going PPV, to just make it a two-on-one "celebrity death match"- Zelensky and Gavin Newsom vs. Putin. Putin would do us a huge favor by simultaneously neutralizing the world's most pathetic grifter along with the next fraudulently installed US President*.
This post was edited on 12/17/22 at 8:39 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15779 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 8:48 pm to
quote:

Real man? Z, you are a cock loving midget bitch.


An inch taller than the real midget, Putin
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8172 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 8:56 pm to
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but can we leave the poli board crap on the poli board? Given Chicken's recent request to keep politics off the OT, I think we should strive to honor that in this thread given its a sore spot for some.

Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 9:08 pm to
isw update

quote:

The Kremlin is likely attempting to depict Russian President Vladimir Putin as a competent wartime leader and to rehabilitate the image of the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) by publicizing Putin’s meeting with the joint headquarters of the Russian Armed Forces. The Kremlin announced on December 17 that Putin worked at the joint headquarters of the services of the Russian Armed Forces throughout the day, heard reports on the progress of the “Special Military Operation” in Ukraine, and held a meeting with the joint headquarters and a separate meeting with commanders...The Kremlin also likely publicized Putin’s meeting with the joint headquarters to rehabilitate the image of the Russian MoD in response to the pro-war community’s routine criticism of the Russian MoD. The Kremlin likely consciously publicized Gerasimov’s, Shoigu’s, and Surovikin’s attendance at the meeting with Putin to present the Russian MoD as an organized, unified, and effective war-fighting institution and to shield the top commanders of the Russian Armed Forces from further criticism


quote:

The Kremlin likely aims to portray Putin as a leader in touch with the Russian people by publicizing Putin’s participation in meaningless events like the grand opening of a turkey farm. Independent Russian news outlet The Moscow Times reported that the Kremlin has instructed leaders of certain state-owned corporations and regional governors to prepare a “positive agenda” of news and events in which Putin can participate


quote:

A New York Times (NYT) investigation of Russian military documents supports ISW’s longstanding assessments about how flawed Russian planning assumptions and campaign design decisions plagued Russia’s invasion of Ukraine from its onset...The NYT investigation also supports ISW’s assessments that Russian strategic commanders have been micromanaging operational commanders' decisions on tactical matters and that Russian morale is very low. The investigation supported existing reporting that Russian soldiers in Belarus did not know they were going to attack Ukraine until February 23—the day before the invasion—and that some soldiers did not know about the invasion until one hour before the invasion began


quote:

Ongoing Russian offensive operations around Bakhmut are further driving a wedge between forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) and Yevgeny Prigozhin’s Wagner Group troops. DNR Head Denis Pushilin claimed on December 17 that both DNR and Wagner units are closing the “pincers” on Ukrainian troops in Bakhmut


quote:

The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) assesses that the Kremlin is not serious about negotiations with Ukraine, agreeing with a longstanding ISW assessment. CIA Director William Burns told PBS NewsHour on December 16, “Most conflicts end in negotiations, but that requires a seriousness on the part of the Russians in this instance that I don't think we see... it's not our assessment that the Russians are serious at this point about a real negotiation.”...Putin has consistently weaponized invocations of the negotiation process to isolate Ukraine from partner support. Putin has routinely framed Ukraine as refusing concessions and likely seeks to use any ceasefire and negotiation window to allow Russian troops time to reconstitute and relaunch operations, thus depriving Ukraine of the initiative.


quote:

Key Takeaways

The Kremlin is likely attempting to increase perceptions of Putin’s competence and of that of the Russian Ministry of Defense by publicizing Putin’s meeting with the joint headquarters of the Russian Armed Forces and Putin’s appearances at non-military events.

A New York Times investigation of Russian military documents from early in the war supports ISW’s longstanding assessments about how flawed Russian planning assumptions and campaign design decisions plagued Russia’s invasion of Ukraine from its onset.
Ongoing Russian offensive operations around Bakhmut are further driving a wedge between forces of the Donetsk People’s Republic and Yevgeny Prigozhin’s Wagner Group troops.

The US Central Intelligence Agency assesses that the Kremlin is not serious about negotiations with Ukraine, agreeing with a longstanding ISW assessment.

Ukrainian forces conducted counterattacks near Svatove and Kreminna and continue to strike Russian rear areas.

Russian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut and Avdiivka-Donetsk City.

Ukrainian officials warned that Russian forces may be attempting to draw Ukrainian forces into a trap on the east (left) bank of the Dnipro River.

Russia may be conducting an information operation falsely connecting ongoing negotiations on the demilitarization of the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant to a prospective future Ukrainian counteroffensive in Zaporizhia Oblast.

Several Russian sources denounced a military commissar's claim that Russian authorities will extend the service period for conscript soldiers. An extension of the legal mandatory service period would not be necessary to keep current conscripts in the field, however, as all former conscripts are reservists, and all reservists are already eligible for mobilization.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8621 posts
Posted on 12/17/22 at 10:18 pm to
Time is not on Ukraine’s side. They need to acquire weapons and make their move as quickly as they can. Any kind of cease fire gives Russia time to regroup. This is a full blown proxy war now. Ukraine is the entire west against Russia. You can’t let Russia prevail if you’re NATO. That would be a disaster and Putin would beat his chest on the world’s stage. I know western militaries want to keep their own forces supplied but everyone is going to have to pitch in and send them more tanks, artillery and ammunition. They will be outnumbered on the battlefield in both troops and equipment but the Ukrainians have proven that they are far superior soldiers than the Russians so they can still win being the smaller force but they must get the weapons to do it. I keep saying this but I don’t understand why we and Poland can’t agree on the original deal to send them some of our older f-16s that are being rotated out of service and Poland sends Ukraine their 23 Mig-29s.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5661 posts
Posted on 12/18/22 at 7:22 am to

British Defence Intelligence
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 18 December 2022
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE

On 14 December 2022, the Russian Ministry of Defence announced the establishment of two 'front line creative brigades' tasked with raising the morale of troops deployed on the 'special military operation'. Russian media reports that the ranks will include opera singers, actors and circus performers. This follows a recent campaign by the Russian MoD to encourage the public to donate musical instruments to deployed soldiers.

Military music and organised entertainment for deployed troops have a long history in many militaries but in Russia they are strongly intertwined with the Soviet-era concept of ideological political education.

Fragile morale almost certainly continues to be a significant vulnerability across much of the Russian force. However, soldiers' concerns primarily focus on very high casualty rates, poor leadership, pay problems, lack of equipment and ammunition, and lack of clarity about the war's objectives. The creative brigades' efforts are unlikely to substantively alleviate these concerns.
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 7:23 am
Posted by USMEagles
Member since Jan 2018
11811 posts
Posted on 12/18/22 at 8:45 am to
quote:

Meanwhile on the poliboard regarding Zelensky


Poliboard is based.
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