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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:24 pm to
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:24 pm to
quote:

Gives a lot of credence to those questioning Russia real count of operational nukes.


It’s possible. But also likely that they are using older missiles to saturate Ukrainian air defense systems and force them to deplete their supply of surface to air weapons.
Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5913 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:30 pm to
quote:

Even if we agreed right now to send them they wouldn’t matter in this war. I don’t see this stretching more than another year at most and that just isn’t enough time to integrate their pilots to our western systems.


I think “in this war” is key. This war is almost certainly ending with an uneasy truce and the specter of a Russian mulligan if they sense any weakness.

Once the fighting does stop I’d like to see Ukraine move forward with a clear qualitative advantage over the Russians in the air and in air defenses.

So I say start the integration and training now. A self capable Ukraine is the surest path to a lasting peace in my opinion. A self capable Israel hasn’t been meaningfully fricked with in 50 years.
This post was edited on 11/26/22 at 8:28 pm
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:39 pm to
quote:

@saintjavelin On the left is from WW1 On the right is from Bakhmut this week


Wow
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:41 pm to
quote:

It’s possible. But also likely that they are using older missiles to saturate Ukrainian air defense systems and force them to deplete their supply of surface to air weapons.


I believe that’s what they’re doing, but removing nukes from their delivery because they can’t produce missiles fast enough means they’re actively reducing their operational nukes, in my simplistic view (no missile to deliver = non-operational nuke even if the warhead itself is viable in my thinking)
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:47 pm to
Yes. I read your post wrong initially. Although I think these are 1990’s missiles so not really ditching their best nukes just yet.
Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 7:57 pm to
quote:

AS-15 KENT air launched cruise missile (ALCM), designed in the 1980s exclusively as a nuclear delivery system.


That is wrong. They used the conventional variant in Syria and in Georgia in 2008.

ETA: And the Ukrainians sold them to Iran in the mid 2000s despite our protests.
This post was edited on 11/26/22 at 8:00 pm
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
20852 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 8:24 pm to
quote:

But Ukraine itself and its Eastern European allies do have the appetite. Poland, the Baltics, Czechia, Slovakia, and Finland cannot allow Ukraine to lose. They know that their own security is at stake.



Even Putin isn't crazy enough to not see Russia has zero capacity to wage war. They are not a threat to anyone and it has been proven on the battlefield for everyone to see. At this point Russia/Putin is just praying they can somehow keep the Eastern border areas that are heavily Russian.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 8:41 pm to
isw update

quote:

The overall pace of operations along the frontline has slowed in recent days due to deteriorating weather conditions but is likely to increase starting in the next few weeks as temperatures drop and the ground freezes throughout the theater.



quote:

Russian officials are continuing efforts to deport children to Russian under the guise of medical rehabilitation schemes and adoption programs


quote:

Russian Commissioner for Children’s Rights Maria Lvova-Belova additionally posted an excerpt from a documentary film chronicling the story of the children she adopted from Mariupol.[4] Lvova-Belova has largely been at the forefront of the concerted Russian effort to remove Ukrainian children from Ukrainian territory and adopt them into Russian families, which may constitute a violation of the Geneva Convention as well as a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign.[5] Lvova-Belova's documentary is likely meant to lend legitimacy to the ongoing adoption of Ukrainian children into Russian families, just as the guise of medical necessity is likely intended to justify mass deportations of Ukrainian children to Russian territory.


quote:

Russian officials may be attempting to counterbalance the influence of Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin through the promotion of other parallel military structures


quote:

Head of the Chechen Republic Ramzan Kadyrov reported that he met with Russian President Vladimir Putin on November 25 and claimed that they discussed the participation of Chechen units in the war in Ukraine and the creation of new Russian military and Rosgvardia units comprised of Chechen personnel.[10]


quote:

Russian forces are likely using inert Kh-55 cruise missiles in their massive missile strike campaign against Ukrainian critical infrastructure, further highlighting the depletion of the Russian military’s high-precision weapons arsenal


quote:

The use of more strategic weapons systems in support of the campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure suggests that the Russian military is heavily committed to the strike campaign and still mistakenly believes that it can generate strategically significant effects through that campaign.


quote:

Key Takeaways

The overall pace of operations in Ukraine is likely to increase in the upcoming weeks as the ground freezes throughout the theater.

Russian officials are continuing efforts to deport Ukrainian children to Russia.

Russian officials may be trying to counteract Wagner financier Yevgeny Prigozhin’s growing influence through the promotion of other parallel Russian military structures.

Russian forces are likely using inert Kh-55 missiles designed solely to carry nuclear warheads in its campaign against Ukrainian infrastructure, highlighting the Russian military’s depletion of high-precision weapons.

Russian forces continued defensive operations against ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive operations along the Svatove-Kreminna line.

Russian forces continued offensive operations in the directions of Bakhmut and Avdiivka.

Russian forces continued establishing fortifications in eastern Kherson Oblast.

Russian tactical, logistical, and equipment failures continue to decrease the morale of Russian troops and drive searches for scapegoats.


Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20975 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:31 pm to
Amazing video of Putin meeting with mothers of dead Russian soldiers. Must watch:

LINK

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15772 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:42 pm to
quote:

Amazing video of Putin meeting with mothers of dead Russian soldiers. Must watch:


it has been proven that they are actresses who have been in other propaganda meetings with Putin. One who claimed her son died in battle when he died several years ago.
Posted by HerkFlyer
Auburn, AL
Member since Jan 2018
3212 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:43 pm to
quote:

It is more Politard than MAGA.


I don't fricking touch that place, but if it validates your biases...
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20975 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:44 pm to
Interesting twitter thread from Dr. Jack Watling about winter.

LINK

quote:

There has been a lot of discussion around the effects of winter on operations. I thought I’d outline a couple of aspects of winter fighting that are both critical and often under appreciated. BLUF: Winter will likely favour the Ukrainian military. 1/17

A lot of discussion has revolved around the question of mud and tanks. We’ll circle back to this but fundamentally it is not significant. The real impact of winter is on infantry, secondly on logistics, and the impact on logistics has a secondary effect on military vehicles. 2/17

To begin with infantry. Winter sees the loss of a lot of cover as trees lack foliage. That means you have to keep low. Unfortunately low also means wet and muddy. Wet means cold. There is a limited period you can be wet and cold and remain alive. 3/17

Being able to dry yourself and warm up in this environment takes a lot of personal discipline. It means keeping your wet and dry kit separate. It requires you to meticulously manage your ability to transition from one to the other in field conditions. 4/17

If your dry kit gets wet you are on a fairly short timeline to becoming combat ineffective and need to get somewhere that has heat to dry yourself and your equipment. That probably means power or fire. Both of these things are scarce under field conditions. 5/17

The endurance and capacity of a force to operate in the field away from shelters is therefore closely tied to their personal discipline and survival skills. It is vital that junior leaders keep a close eye on their people and when someone gets cold and wet, withdraw them. 6/17

Now, the Ukrainians spent years defending the JFO through winter. Lots of the mobilised soldiers have experienced living in these conditions for months. The Ukrainian military also has reasonable junior leadership and people look out for one another. 7/17

If you look at Ukrainian fighting positions they tend to be well kept. People tend to have warm clothing and defensive lines often have areas that are kept clean, dry, and warm. Company commanders build these close to fighting positions. 8/17

Russian junior leadership has been heavily attrited. The newly mobilised personnel do not have the experience or skills to operate for extended periods in the field. They have not been issued with winter clothing for the most part. Their fighting positions are often a mess. 9/17

That will in itself see the Russians take casualties from exposure. It will also reduce the pace at which they can manoeuvre and make them more dependent upon centralised nodes for soldiers to recover. These nodes can be targeted. 10/17

For the Ukrainian military therefore they can inflict a lot of casualties just by skirmishing to keep the Russians in their fighting positions and timing attacks to prevent unit rotation. The result will be a high rate of death through hypothermia and disease. 11/17

Shifting to logistics, most military support vehicles are wheeled and both sides are heavily dependent upon commandeered civilian transport for resupply. People exaggerate how big a problem mud is for tanks. But it is a huge problem for wheeled logistics vehicles. 12/17

This means that logistics in winter is much more road-bound and this makes logistics vulnerable. It also narrows the number of axes along which resupply can move. A slow pace of resupply necessarily reduces the pace of operations 13/17

The impact on tanks and IFVs therefore is not that they can’t manoeuvre but that it takes longer to resupply them, repair them, and recover them if they get in trouble. That reduces the ability to exploit breaches made in a line and so makes offensive action more costly. 14/17

For the Ukrainian military, trying to rebuild combat power after its recent offensives, the aim this winter should be to use artillery, skirmishing and constant pressure to keep the Russians outdoors. The result will be bad for Russian morale, discipline and combat power. 15/17

Inflicting the maximum number of casualties through exposure also creates a need for the Russians to replace losses and this will see mobilised personnel pushed in with limited training, rather than being held as new units. That should help Ukraine keep the initiative. 16/17

So, the winter may see a reduction in large scale offensive action unless there is a collapse somewhere. That does not mean a reduction in fighting, or the levels of ammunition consumption. 17/17
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
20975 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:45 pm to
quote:

it has been proven that they are actresses who have been in other propaganda meetings with Putin. One who claimed her son died in battle when he died several years ago.



Did you watch the video?
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30524 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:53 pm to
quote:

Amazing video of Putin meeting with mothers of dead Russian soldiers. Must watch:


Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30524 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 9:54 pm to
quote:

Interesting twitter thread from Dr. Jack Watling about winter.


But, but muh General Winter.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15772 posts
Posted on 11/26/22 at 10:34 pm to
My error. I thought it was the original meeting with the actresses instead of the RealSubtitles one
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15772 posts
Posted on 11/27/22 at 6:54 am to
Fire reported to be at Angarsk Refinery in Russia.

Twatter

Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5659 posts
Posted on 11/27/22 at 7:08 am to
British Defence Intelligence
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 27 November 2022
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE


The area around the towns of Pavlivka and Vuhledar in south-central Donetsk Oblast has been the scene of intense combat over the last two weeks, though little territory has changed hands.

Both Russia and Ukraine have significant forces committed to this sector, with Russian Naval Infantry having suffered heavy casualties.

This area remains heavily contested, likely partially because Russia assesses the area has potential as a launch point for a future major advance north to capture the remainder of Ukrainian held Donetsk Oblast. However, Russia is unlikely to be able to concentrate sufficient quality forces to achieve an operational breakthrough.
Posted by AbramsTankBrigades
Madison
Member since Nov 2022
98 posts
Posted on 11/27/22 at 7:36 am to
There's that imaginary CIA Empire again, that the Tankies love to talk about
This post was edited on 11/27/22 at 7:37 am
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
14818 posts
Posted on 11/27/22 at 8:57 am to
quote:

Angarsk


From google maps, this is way east of Ukraine, near Mongolia. Not likely Ukraine attack.
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