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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:30 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:30 pm to Kentucker
quote:
So how many Poles have to die from “accidental” missiles to warrant an action by Poland and NATO?
Assuming the current rumor is correct, and that this is the result of a Russian missile that would have hit Ukraine but was intercepted and hit in Poland, I think that it warrants Leopard 2 tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, F-16s, and ATACMS.
If Russia fired a missile at Ukraine close enough to the border that it ended up in Poland, that's a real escalation of the conflict, and NATO needs to meet that with an appropriate response.
2
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:32 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
if the accident narrative is true, it is hard to see a no-fly zone as a first-line response.
So what would you consider to be an adequate response?
I’m obviously a hawk so I prefer a more in-your-face response, especially to a sick and depraved country like Russia.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:35 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Assuming the current rumor is correct, and that this is the result of a Russian missile that would have hit Ukraine but was intercepted and hit in Poland, I think that it warrants Leopard 2 tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, F-16s, and ATACMS.
If Russia fired a missile at Ukraine close enough to the border that it ended up in Poland, that's a real escalation of the conflict, and NATO needs to meet that with an appropriate response.
I think that’s reasonable but ultimately it’s up to Poland to decide.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:36 pm to Joshjrn
Months ago a deal fell thru where Poland was going to transfer MIGs to Ukraine. Maybe it will be revisited.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:37 pm to Kentucker
quote:
So what would you consider to be an adequate response?
make them read OML threads.
they'll start a general retreat in no time.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:39 pm to Dr RC
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:41 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Now that the simpering pussy has gone to bed, can we get back to discussing today’s events?
Apparently an article 4 meeting will be held to determine if article 5 will be invoked. What are some of the actions that might be taken if article 5 is activated?
I think a logical one will be a no fly zone over all of Ukraine. That would eliminate the possibility of more “accidental” Russian missiles hitting NATO countries. This would basically hogtie Russia’s “special military operation.”
Ukraine could take their time in pushing the Orcs out of their country and reconstruction of cities away from the front lines could begin. I hope this, at a minimum, happens.
Largely agree. I think we’ll also see some new weaponry & equipment enter the fray on the Ukrainian side as an escalation in support.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:42 pm to Kentucker
quote:
So what would you consider to be an adequate response?
I think what the response is going to be the standard diplomatic response, i.e. summoning the Russian ambassador, issuing a stern warning, etc., with possible reparations to the families of the Poles who were killed. I don't know if that is the right response though. Hopefully behind the scenes it will add more evidence that Russia is a security threat to NATO members, and move the French-Germany axis to take Eastern European warnings about Russia more seriously.
I think some part of the potential response is how Russia reacts to Poland's response. If the Russians are dismissive, then it might see a response closer to what you are suggesting.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:45 pm to cypher
quote:
Months ago a deal fell thru where Poland was going to transfer MIGs to Ukraine. Maybe it will be revisited.
If it truly is strictly a matter of Russia firing at a Ukrainian target and hitting Poland, then it’s a game changer. If they’ve been “accidently” hitting civilian targets for 8 months, killing 40,000 people, then it’s time to shut down their ability to launch anything into the air over the region.
Their horrible marksmanship represents a clear danger for any populations inside and outside, but near, Ukraine.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:47 pm to Dr RC
OML’s extreme paranoia is real
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:48 pm to Kentucker
Why hasn’t Ukraine attacked Russia yet? Like Moscow. All this money and weaponry we are flooding them with……seems like they’d start lobbing shite at Russia.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:50 pm to DabosDynasty
quote:
I think we’ll also see some new weaponry & equipment enter the fray on the Ukrainian side as an escalation in support.
I think if we trusted the Ukes with ATACMS, the war would be over much quicker. Their use of HIMARS turned the tide of the war and Ukraine could easily have targeted Belgorod Oblast which the Russians still use as a staging area before entering Ukraine.
They didn’t, however, because we didn’t want them to fire into Russia with equipment we gave them. I think they would be as respectful of our wishes with ATACMS.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:52 pm to tilco
quote:
Why hasn’t Ukraine attacked Russia yet? Like Moscow. All this money and weaponry we are flooding them with……seems like they’d start lobbing shite at Russia.
Because we set a condition that the Ukes couldn’t use any of the weapons we provided against targets within Russia proper, only in Ukraine.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 8:56 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
If the Russians are dismissive, then it might see a response closer to what you are suggesting.
Do you really expect anything but an arrogant response from the Russians? I don’t.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:10 pm to Kentucker
I just don't see Ukraine/Zelensky settling for anything less than restoration of all of Ukraine and Putin/Russia won't agree.
Even if Putin is removed by internal forces, I am not convinced Russian position would change. Of course it depends on who removes him...
I am also not convinced that Ukraine will have sufficient capability to force Russia out of all Ukrainian territory to include Crimea.
All I foresee is a continuing slog for some time. Money and lives lost.
Even if Putin is removed by internal forces, I am not convinced Russian position would change. Of course it depends on who removes him...
I am also not convinced that Ukraine will have sufficient capability to force Russia out of all Ukrainian territory to include Crimea.
All I foresee is a continuing slog for some time. Money and lives lost.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:17 pm to TigersnJeeps
The NATO/Polish memes have been hilarious today
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:18 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
All I foresee is a continuing slog for some time. Money and lives lost.
Peace is a myth.
The sooner you accept this the sooner you understand how our species functions.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:20 pm to TigersnJeeps
quote:
I just don't see Ukraine/Zelensky settling for anything less than restoration of all of Ukraine and Putin/Russia won't agree.
Even if Putin is removed by internal forces, I am not convinced Russian position would change. Of course it depends on who removes him...
I am also not convinced that Ukraine will have sufficient capability to force Russia out of all Ukrainian territory to include Crimea.
All I foresee is a continuing slog for some time. Money and lives lost.
You want real talk? There might eventually be some kind of deal that doesn't result in Crimea going back to Ukraine.
But there's not going to be any negotiation like that until Russia is pushed back to the February 23rd borders. That's when actual negotiation can start. Until then, Ukraine's position is going to be for full territorial integrity, and the US will properly support them in that.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:21 pm to AbramsTankBrigades
quote:
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be. That way and not some other way.
Posted on 11/15/22 at 9:23 pm to Kentucker
quote:
So how many Poles have to die from “accidental” missiles to warrant an action by Poland and NATO?
My guess? Something more than 2 but less than a thousand. That would be insane to react that way over this incident.
This post was edited on 11/15/22 at 9:24 pm
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