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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 6/23/22 at 5:31 pm to
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 5:31 pm to
quote:

We should be cheering the Europeans taking more responsibility for Ukraine - that is if we want Ukraine to win (which you obviously don't).


While I disagree with most of SirWinstons comments in this thread, he’s got part of a point, as do you. We should be cheering the Europeans for being more active in their own union and it’s security, but they also shouldn’t be relying on us for it for 95% of the work. They want Ukraine in the EU with security guarantees because it’s apparently important to them, but not important enough for them to help them beforehand. They’d rather bring them in after not helping to mitigate wartime destruction instead of helping and then bringing them in. Their continental security concern is the same.

Personally, I think Moldova and Georgia are overkill, they are net negatives to the EU with increased risk of future conflict than I’m not sure the average French or German or Italian cares about. Ukraine is far more important, with far more potential. Can’t help but wonder if part of this is to justify further EU action in the region, currently most acutely Ukraine. If so, great, but this can’t just be a paper deal and the European powers continue to be largely absent from helping their new partners.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

The only flaw in the comparison between now and then is Nazi Germany was a legitimate world threat. Putin's Russia can't even overwhelm a third-rate country like present day Ukraine.


They weren’t when they started, which is the point of attempting to nip it at Ukraine. Again, Putin’s Russia can’t overwhelm a third rate country like Ukraine That has 8+ years of western training, high quality western intelligence help, and tens of billions of dollars in equipment, some of which is much more advanced than Russian equipment.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30712 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

Its only a matter of time, lol hyper low IQ Zelensky fan boys.

The Ukrainian fronts are collapsing as the Russians are making rapid gains


Do you even sand table bro?
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

There’s only so many rounds a howitzer tube can fire before needing to be replaced. Warping occurs and obviously throws off accuracy. Russia’s guns were already ancient and had been sitting up for years so it’s anyones guess how many rounds they can take. Each piece is different. They can’t keep up the rate of fire they have been using forever though that’s not up for debate. I’d be scared to fire some of their equipment honestly. Probably a coin toss wether you blow your own nuts off in the process.


Soviet steel was not known to be consistent and up to spec
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:03 pm to
Topography matters a lot. The highway is in a valley.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16157 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:10 pm to
Nice to know that you prefer dicktatorial governments
Posted by Jim Rockford
Member since May 2011
105508 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:10 pm to
quote:

Karolina Hird, Kateryna Stepanenko, Mason Clark, and Grace Mappes

June 23, 6:15 pm ET

Click here to see ISW's interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

While Belarus and Russia retain close military cooperation and the ongoing Belarusian exercises are likely intended in part to threaten Ukraine, Belarus remains unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine on behalf of Russia. As ISW has previously assessed, Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko likely cannot afford the domestic consequences of involving his limited military assets in a costly foreign war.[5] Unsupported Belarusian forces are additionally highly unlikely to be effective, and Russia lacks the reserves necessary to conduct another offensive toward Kyiv. These exercises are undoubtedly intended to posture and threaten Ukrainian border areas but are unlikely to preempt actual involvement in hostilities.

Russian forces have made substantial gains in the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area over the last several days and Ukrainian troops continue to suffer high casualties, but Ukrainian forces have fundamentally accomplished their objective in the battle by slowing down and degrading Russian forces. Head of the Luhansk Oblast Administration Serhiy Haidai stated on June 23 that Ukrainian troops may have to retreat to avoid encirclement in Lysychansk, which indicates that Ukrainian authorities are setting conditions to prepare for the ultimate loss of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.[6] As ISW has previously assessed, however, the loss of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk will not represent a major turning point in the war.[7] Ukrainian troops have succeeded for weeks in drawing substantial quantities of Russian personnel, weapons, and equipment into the area and have likely degraded Russian forces' overall capabilities while preventing Russian forces from focusing on more advantageous axes of advance. Russian offensive operations will likely stall in the coming weeks, whether or not Russian forces capture the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area, likely granting Ukrainian forces the opportunity to launch prudent counteroffensives. The Kremlin’s ideological fixation on the capture of Severodonetsk, much like the earlier siege of Azovstal, will likely be to the ultimate detriment of Russian capabilities in future advances in Ukraine. The loss of Severodonetsk is a loss for Ukraine in the sense that any terrain captured by Russian forces is a loss—but the battle of Severodonetsk will not be a decisive Russian victory.

Key Takeaways

Belarusian forces are conducting mobilization exercises along the Ukrainian border but are unlikely to enter the war in Ukraine due to their low capabilities and the adverse domestic implications of military involvement on behalf of Russia.
Russian forces have likely reached the southern outskirts of Lysychansk and are reinforcing their grouping around Severodonetsk to complete the capture of both Severodonetsk and Lysychansk. These gains remain unlikely to provide Russian forces with a decisive edge in further operations in Ukraine and have further degraded Russian capabilities.
Russian forces are continuing efforts to encircle the Ukrainian grouping in Hirske and Zolote and are likely moving to take control of these settlements.
Russian forces have likely successfully interdicted Ukrainian lines of communication along the T1302 highway and are using recent gains along the highway to reinforce assaults on Lysychansk.
Russian forces amassed equipment and continued building defensive capabilities along the Southern Axis.

LINK
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
41329 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

They weren’t when they started, which is the point of attempting to nip it at Ukraine. Again, Putin’s Russia can’t overwhelm a third rate country like Ukraine That has 8+ years of western training, high quality western European intelligence help, and tens of billions of dollars in equipment, some of which is much more advanced than Russian equipment.


Agreed, with one slight addendum. Western Europe has the wealth, technology, and population base to handle the stumble-bum Russian military. There is absolutely no need for the US to keep dumping tens of billions into defending people who can defend themselves.
Posted by BayouBlitz
Member since Aug 2007
18126 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 6:53 pm to
Ukraine can defend itself?
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:01 pm to
Little late to start worrying about military spending now baws, they haven’t been audited i. Decades and when add on the black budget, 10 to 100s billions are lost, stolen or unaccounted for yearly, so at least you can see the money is going on this deal. It’s killing fricking Russians, and wiping out Russian equipment at a very nice rate. this is as good as it’s gets for military spending, if you don’t understand that, then do more research
Posted by Strannix
C.S.A.
Member since Dec 2012
53914 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

Nice to know that you prefer dicktatorial governments


Im anti-Zelensky baw, the guy ordering kids and old men to go die at the front with no training.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
41329 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:11 pm to
Did you read? I clearly stated that Western Europe can collectively handle their own defense against the garbage Russian military.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42779 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:13 pm to
quote:


The only flaw in the comparison between now and then is Nazi Germany was a legitimate world threat. Putin's Russia can't even overwhelm a third-rate country like present day Ukraine.


Day one most thought Russia would roll through Ukraine in a month. When Ukraine stood strong many like myself got behind them. The West saw Ukraine wasn’t rolling over and helped.
Russia is being exposed now.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30712 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:22 pm to
quote:

The only flaw in the comparison between now and then is Nazi Germany was a legitimate world threat. Putin's Russia can't even overwhelm a third-rate country like present day Ukraine.


Despite their amazingly poor showing in Ukraine, I think it would be difficult to consider the totality of the Russian military capabilities and not conclude it is a much more legitimate world threat than Germany was at its peak in the summer of 1943. In other words, I think you are missing or dismissing a salient part of their capabilities.
Posted by SoFla Tideroller
South Florida
Member since Apr 2010
41329 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:33 pm to
I think you are also underestimating France, Britain, Germany, et al's capability in wealth and population compared to Russia's. They are more than capable of handling Russia.
Posted by DabosDynasty
Member since Apr 2017
5180 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 7:55 pm to
It’s not their capability we’re underestimating, it’s their will that is yet again the problem.
Posted by TacoNash
Member since Mar 2020
715 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 8:32 pm to
Casualties among Russian and pro-Russian forces are mounting at an unsustainable rate in Ukraine, British intelligence reports, raising more questions about the extent to which Moscow can maintain its current pace of operations amid limited progress on the battlefield.

LINK
Posted by gizmothepug
Louisiana
Member since Apr 2015
8691 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 8:42 pm to
quote:

raising more questions about the extent to which Moscow can maintain its current pace of operations amid limited progress on the battlefield.


The extent that helped win WW2, the Russians don’t care about casualties and everyone knows that, that’s the problem.
Posted by Tigerlaff
FIGHTING out of the Carencro Sonic
Member since Jan 2010
22941 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 8:42 pm to
It is hilarious that so many downvoters here think Ukraine is going to win this conflict. They are out manned, out gunned, and the west is not willing to send troops. This is over. It's only a matter of time.
Posted by lsucoonass
shreveport and east texas
Member since Nov 2003
70056 posts
Posted on 6/23/22 at 8:46 pm to
If we really supported them, then why not a military presence.

The Soviet’s are just using outdated tactics
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