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Posted on 1/27/20 at 7:36 pm to Street Hawk
I have listened to the ATC transmissions. According to what I heard, they were circling because Burbank had multiple departures and arrivals at that time.
Posted on 1/27/20 at 7:41 pm to Nicky Parrish
quote:
Approximately 80 percent of airplane accidents are due to human error (pilots, air traffic controllers, mechanics, etc.) and 20 percent are due to machine (equipment) failures
A lot of mishaps due to equipment failure never happen because of a well trained pilot. Your stat is accurate but misleading.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 2:28 pm to hottub
quote:
A lot of mishaps due to equipment failure never happen because of a well trained pilot
Agree100% I’m sure every pilot that experiences a mechanical failures does everything in his power to save the aircraft.
Unfortunately not all are successful.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 2:39 pm to Nicky Parrish
r/helicopters has some really clear and frank discussions and most are leaning toward pilot error due to IIMC (inadvertent flight into instrument meteorological conditions). They also point out that it is illegal to fly into clouds while under VFR.
Whoever mentioned lawsuits may have been onto something, as 8 passengers died due to the pilot flying into the clouds.
Whoever mentioned lawsuits may have been onto something, as 8 passengers died due to the pilot flying into the clouds.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:21 pm to MikeD
I believe they were under ‘special VFR’ and the pilot was trained and trained others in ‘special VFR’.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:30 pm to brass2mouth
VNE on a 76 is 155
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:30 pm to hottub
quote:
I believe they were under ‘special VFR’ and the pilot was trained and trained others in ‘special VFR’.
That was just to get through the controlled airspace earlier in the flight.
He was under VFR rules when he crashed.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:36 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
It's amazing this guy made this mistake considering how many times he had flown this pattern. You can't mess with fog or clouds.
Familiarity breeds complacency.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:38 pm to MikeD
quote:
I have listened to the ATC transmissions. According to what I heard, they were circling because Burbank had multiple departures and arrivals at that time.
They were circling because ATC can't delay any IFR traffic for special VFR requests. Special VFR basically shuts down an airport's airspace for that particular aircraft. Burbank tower told them this.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:46 pm to hottub
quote:
I believe they were under ‘special VFR’ and the pilot was trained and trained others in ‘special VFR’.
Copying this from a post, because it explains how bad of a decision it is for helicopters flying under VFR to end up in IMC. Very educational posts over there. Reddit user u/cazzipropri
quote:
The flight was granted SVFR clearance to transition through the Burbank Class C airspace.
That SVFR (= Special VFR) clearance in practice means ATC saying "the weather is not good enough for us to let you through under normal circumstances, but if you give us a minute we'll make space for you and make an exception". This is exactly what Burbank did. They kept the helicopter waiting outside in a holding pattern, then they let him in and through, from west to east.
The pilot transitioned (=went through) uneventfully.Then Burbank handed him off to Van Nuys. That transition also was without incident.
Once the flight left the Burbank airspace, the pilot was again on his own. That's what happens when you fly VFR, quite by definition: Visual Flight Rules. You are literally telling the national airspace system that you are willing to take complete personal responsibility to separate yourself (i.e., not crash into) weather, ground, towers, other aircraft, and everything else. Pilots are trusted to be able to make that decision. You can't blame anybody for giving him a "special" clearance to fly VFR because you don't need any.
At that point, YOU and ONLY YOU are entirely responsible for separation (i.e., not crashing).
There is quite universal consensus among all the pilots that have written about this incident on reddit that flying VFR in that weather was a terrible, no good, very bad idea.
It seems also somewhat evident (although there's no 100% proof) that the pilot was also violating the law, because if you fly under VFR rules and end up inside clouds or fog, you are breaking the law and, I insist, you are a criminal, especially if you are carrying lives.
The pilot was probably shitting his pants a little bit anyway, because he requested VFR flight following as soon as he left Van Nuys (LINK but they couldn't practically give it to him because he was too low to be picked up by ATC radars.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 3:50 pm to VolsOut4Harambe
quote:
frick riding in a helicopter man. After this tragedy I refuse to step in one unless absolutely necessary.
You acting like the helicopter was at fault. When it was the idiot pilot deciding to fly in severe fog and make critical mistake along the way.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:01 pm to MikeD
quote:
Whoever mentioned lawsuits may have been onto something, as 8 passengers died due to the pilot flying into the clouds.
Who are they going to sue? The man who made the decision to fly into the clouds was the pilot and he is now dead.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:06 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Who are they going to sue?
Island Express(or the owners,) lawyers will sue everything that isn't nailed down if they see dat contingency fee a coming
ETA: they can actually go after the pilots' assets
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 4:09 pm
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:09 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
The man who made the decision to fly into the clouds was the pilot and he is now dead.
Sue his estate
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:10 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Who are they going to sue?
Lawyers will sue anything. Just be prepared for someone to sue deep pockets of Kobe's estate.
I wouldn't be surprised if the pilot's own family will sue the Bryant's on the premise that the pilot was ordered to fly, even in suspect weather conditions.
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:19 pm to jchamil
quote:
Sue his estate
Kobe was worth 600 million. If the pilot had a good liability policy they may get a couple of million out of it. Hardly seems worth the effort.
Maybe they could sue the charter company into bankruptcy. Maybe it would give them some personal satisfaction. They don't need the money.
This post was edited on 1/28/20 at 4:23 pm
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:24 pm to Jim Rockford
Total novice here, how fast can a helicopter of this class go and how high can it safely fly?
Just curious,
Just curious,
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:27 pm to cypressbrake3
Posted on 1/28/20 at 4:30 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Kobe was worth 600 million. If the pilot had a good liability policy they may get a couple of million out of it. Hardly seems worth the effort. Maybe they could sue the charter company into bankruptcy. Maybe it would give them some personal satisfaction. They don't need the money.
Yeah, Kobe's family doesn't need the money, but they were 7 other passengers on that flight who also died...
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