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Started By
Message
re: Jennifer Crumbly (school shooter mom) verdict in: Guilty of involuntary manslaughter
Posted on 2/7/24 at 11:13 am to Athis
Posted on 2/7/24 at 11:13 am to Athis
quote:The Rittenhouse thing and debates are a good litmus test to easily find the folks who have been completely broken by politics.
And the dumbasses on X are making Rittenhouse trending... But the responses are on point...
It's so cut and dry self defense, it's funny when people argue against it.
0
Posted on 2/7/24 at 11:34 am to Ingeniero
quote:
I don't see a problem with it as long as you're teaching them gun safety and monitoring it responsibly. Buying a handgun for a kid who's suicidal and having violent ideations then refusing to get him help can start getting into territory where you're legally responsible for his actions.
This is the answer.
As a 2A supporter we champion responsible gun ownership.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 11:35 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Being aware of a picture with a gun and blood and doing nothing is one level of negligence. Being aware of a picture with blood and a gun and knowing the child had unfettered access to a handgun and ammunition is another level at least IMO.
Agreed.
Under Michigan law it appears the standard to find someone guilty of involuntary manslaughter is gross negligence. As I'm sure you know, that is a standard higher than "ordinary" negligence. Often it requires proof of a wanton disregard of a known risk. It's more than just a "If I had been paying better attention I could have done something to possible avoid this situation". It's, "I knew of this very real, dangerous risk and wantonly disregarded it."
Again, I wasn't on the jury, so I didn't see any of the evidence presented. But it appears the strongest argument for the state was the parents were notified of the disturbing drawing the DAY of the shooting and they knew he had access to the gun. They also appeared to know he may have had prior mental issues. Now, they (presumably) did not know he had the gun with him at school that day (if he actually had it with him at the time of the meeting). But the argument is knowing what they knew they could have, that day, prior to the shooting, taken efforts to ensure he did not have the gun with him or be able to access the gun. Yet, they did nothing whatsoever....which (apparently) in the mind of the jury reached the threshold of gross negligence.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 11:46 am to Will Munny
She's not hot, so good on the jury 
Posted on 2/7/24 at 12:41 pm to Will Munny
That’s a horribly bad precedent. So now parents are going to be on the hook for the crimes of their children?
Wait, who am I kidding. This will only be used against white parents.
Wait, who am I kidding. This will only be used against white parents.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 12:47 pm to Pax Regis
quote:When their kid is suicidal and parents know he's had ideations of killing others and the parents buy him a gun, and the parents do not lock up the gun sufficiently...yea possibly.
That’s a horribly bad precedent. So now parents are going to be on the hook for the crimes of their children?
Posted on 2/7/24 at 12:53 pm to IT_Dawg
quote:
I think what really hurt her with the jury, was when she testified, she said she would do everything exactly the same.
What an insane thing to say. Your son killed four people and you get on the stand and say "in retrospect, I did everything perfectly. "
Posted on 2/7/24 at 12:55 pm to Will Munny
I thought this title said Jennifer Connelly and saw it's 6 pages and I got all excited.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:25 pm to OysterPoBoy
quote:
I thought this title said Jennifer Connelly and saw it's 6 pages and I got all excited.
I also read it as JConnelly as well at first. So what's the take here? Are people happy or pissed at the verdict?
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:27 pm to Will Munny
Bitch is guilty. Believe it or not, we finally may be on the right track of eliminating mass shooting. I love it. 
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:32 pm to Pax Regis
quote:
Wait, who am I kidding. This will only be used against white parents.
Statistically, how many mass shooters are black?
You can probably go back to the beginning of time and count on 1 hand the number of black mass shooters.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:39 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
Statistically, how many mass shooters are black?
As in shooting at more than 2 people? Pretty sure it's a literal frickton.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:40 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
Statistically, how many mass shooters are black?
You can probably go back to the beginning of time and count on 1 hand the number of black mass shooters.
Chief, I got some bad news for you.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:43 pm to Cold Cous Cous
quote:
What an insane thing to say. Your son killed four people and you get on the stand and say "in retrospect, I did everything perfectly. "
That's the problem with her taking the stand. You say that and it looks crazy. If you say you would have done something different, that's evidence of a breach of duty of care and negligence.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:45 pm to Pax Regis
quote:
This will only be used against white parents.
People will downvote you but it's the truth. Ghetto killings could uniformly be attributed to parental negligence, but that would never fly in today's political climate.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 1:46 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:2 things here.
Statistically, how many mass shooters are black?
You can probably go back to the beginning of time and count on 1 hand the number of black mass shooters.
1. If it hasn't already been posted, I'm fairly certain that black people commit more mass shootings than white people. Just not the type that you think of or that make the news, but they do shoot more people in mass than white people.
2. Why does it matter if it's NOT a mass shooting? If a white or black person shoots just 1 person, if some of the same elements apply to the parent as in this case, why would it be any different than mass shooting?
Posted on 2/7/24 at 2:26 pm to Will Munny
I actually looked at the elements of manslaughter under Michigan law and I don't see how this can survive on appeal, notwithstanding I could finding NOTHING under Michigan law (statute or jurisprudence) that allows the imposition of criminal penalties on a parent for the conduct of the minor child.
This post was edited on 2/7/24 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 2/7/24 at 2:37 pm to Will Munny
I havent looked into every aspect of this, but we need to start arresting the parents of their underage kids being menaces.
It will stop, or at least stunt this craziness.
It will stop, or at least stunt this craziness.
Posted on 2/7/24 at 2:39 pm to Supermoto Tiger
quote:
Statistically, how many mass shooters are black?
I would say most of them.
When a black shoots up a party and injures 20 and kills none. That's still a mass shooting.
A drive by that hits bystanders is a mass shooting.
here you go, this fits the exact definition of a mass shooting. This was from 1/29 so it happened two weeks ago.
quote:
NEW ORLEANS —
The New Orleans Police Department is investigating a shooting that killed one and injured three others.
According to police, the shooting happened around 1:15 a.m. Wednesday.
At the scene of the shooting, police found one person shot to death.
4 people were shot, one died.
Black mass shooting that no one will talk about beyond this post.
You going to need more than one hand to count these son.
from the jackson thread.
Spraying from a car..
This post was edited on 2/7/24 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 2/7/24 at 2:41 pm to Will Munny
Was he old enough to possess a firearm at the time of the shooting?
If they bought and gave it to him being under the legal age to O&P then they should be screwed.
If they owned the firearm and allowed him to possess the firearm while he was under the legal age to O&P a firearm they should be screwed.
If they owned the firearm and did not allow him to possess yet left the firearm unsecured where he could access it they should be screwed.
If he was at or above the age to O&P and they gave him the firearm as a gift (Local laws not broken I assume) then they should be cleared of any culpability. JMO
If they bought and gave it to him being under the legal age to O&P then they should be screwed.
If they owned the firearm and allowed him to possess the firearm while he was under the legal age to O&P a firearm they should be screwed.
If they owned the firearm and did not allow him to possess yet left the firearm unsecured where he could access it they should be screwed.
If he was at or above the age to O&P and they gave him the firearm as a gift (Local laws not broken I assume) then they should be cleared of any culpability. JMO
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